Greg: Craft beer radio episode 524 on let's call it february 1st 2025,
Greg: nice timing i'm gonna walk all over.
Jeff: The saxophone here.
Greg: Uh this is our valentine's day are going to get sexy today.
Greg: So, yeah.
Jeff: Yeah, we're back. You might miss us. There's a recording this on January 31st,
Jeff: and there is still episode 523, which I haven't posted yet.
Jeff: So that'll get up, and then this one will come up, and, you know,
Jeff: we still love you. We're just, you know...
Greg: We're busy. I've been ridiculously busy. I'm in training at work,
Greg: and it has been a long time, and I'm nearly done.
Greg: but it has taken up a lot of my attention. Like I have very little attention
Greg: anywhere else, even for like,
Greg: Other things that are happening in the world, which I think is a good thing.
Shannon: Oh, it is definitely a good thing.
Jeff: Yeah, this is like beginning of travel season for us.
Jeff: Sunday, we're headed out to Redmond for a week, and then we're back for a week,
Jeff: and then we're going to head to Atlanta for the WorkbenchCon conference and
Jeff: visit family in Florida and really don't have any strong plans on hurrying back.
Jeff: So we'll see when we get back.
Shannon: Yeah, it might be six more months before you... I don't think we've gone that long.
Jeff: But it might be April before we get back, so...
Shannon: We'll do an April Fool's show.
Jeff: We used to. We used to do good ones. Maybe we'll work on one.
Greg: Maybe. So...
Jeff: Greg grew on his eyes. Greg's not into it anymore. Never mind.
Greg: Seems like a lot of work. This is Aurora Brewing...
Jeff: Nectar on Fresh to Death.
Greg: Nectar on Fresh to Death.
Jeff: So, uh, this is one of the beers that we got on our trip through the Finger
Jeff: Lakes. Being an IPA, it might be a little old, but let's see what it's like.
Greg: So it's pretty cold. Uh, the OG or Hazy flagship Citra, Citra Cryo, Mosaic, Mosaic Cryo.
Jeff: Okay. But this one has Nectar on focus to it. I think.
Greg: I mean, that's what they say. So it's like the, it's the Nectar on enhanced.
Jeff: Yeah.
Greg: Yeah.
Jeff: Yep. this was like one of the best hazy hoppy breweries on that entire trip.
Jeff: So hopefully it's still good.
Shannon: I can't even remember.
Jeff: It was the one where the vineyard was outside where they had that thing that
Jeff: was making all the bird noises to scare the birds away. That was super.
Shannon: Oh yeah. That was.
Jeff: They had a speaker playing and it was just cycling through like a warning,
Jeff: like the warning calls of different birds and stuff like that you know like
Jeff: hawks above kind of warnings and stuff but it was loud it was annoying it was pretty annoying yeah.
Greg: While I was warming up, I realized or I found in my car that there was something
Greg: that I forgot to give you as part of the Christmas gift I gave you. And that was this.
Jeff: What have we got there?
Greg: It's for the waffle maker. It's like waffle.
Jeff: Oh, okay. Waffle tongs.
Shannon: Cool.
Jeff: Sweet.
Shannon: We haven't even used it yet.
Jeff: No, I got to make some of these waffles.
Shannon: We do.
Jeff: Actually, no, waffle makers are making regular waffles. so we'll have to make regular ones.
Shannon: I have to make waffles.
Greg: I thought you could make leash with it. That's what it said.
Jeff: Is it? Okay. I thought it was like a...
Shannon: No, I think you can make leash with it too.
Jeff: Awesome. Then that's what I will do.
Greg: That's what it said when, you know, when I...
Greg: So we're probably still within the window where you can return it and...
Jeff: No, no. I mean, when we make waffles, we'll use them. We just don't make waffles.
Jeff: We don't think about making waffles often, but we should.
Shannon: We get busy.
Jeff: Oh yeah you.
Shannon: Get busy that's right we've been very busy in january.
Jeff: All right so the i do.
Shannon: Wear my slippers that you got all the time oh glad you like it they're very warm.
Jeff: Yeah so the aroma on this it nectar on must be named because it smells nectarines
Jeff: it does carry through that kind of citrusy aroma i'm.
Greg: Guessing nectarine is some sort of nectarine and orange type thing like a combination of the two you.
Shannon: Would think i would know that right.
Jeff: Oh you're thinking it's a fruit i'm thinking it's a hop named nectar on no.
Greg: There's no mention of a nectar on a hop but then again it could be i mean.
Jeff: Like i said i just saw this.
Greg: Is just the real listing for fresh to death.
Jeff: Yeah no when we were there they had several different versions of fresh to death.
Greg: Okay, so let's see.
Shannon: I am looking. It's a hop variety.
Greg: Okay, yes, one of the newest juicy hops on the market.
Shannon: Yeah.
Jeff: So the aroma has kind of that citrusy flavor, almost like an orange kind of
Jeff: thing. A little more tropical.
Jeff: There's a maltiness there, too. It has kind of a bready note to the aroma.
Greg: I agree. There's definitely orangey citrus notes. The citrus more on the orange
Greg: side than like a lemon side.
Greg: A little like of that pithy orange note in the aroma, which is fine. It's good.
Greg: You were talking about the malty note.
Jeff: It smells like it's not just...
Shannon: I think it smells bratty.
Greg: Yeah, there's like a crackery kind of undertone.
Jeff: It takes away from it just being citrus juice or something like that.
Jeff: Oh, it still tastes pretty fresh to me. It's a nice creamy feel to it.
Jeff: The hops are still bright enough. They don't taste kind of faded or anything.
Greg: It's not.
Jeff: A little more pithiness, I guess, in the flavor.
Greg: I think the age you can tell because it's not bursting, right?
Greg: The flavor is confined to the liquid that you have in your mouth instead of
Greg: just bursting out. Yeah.
Greg: But it is very tasty.
Jeff: Yeah, it looks like it was canned on September 9th.
Shannon: Yeah, I don't think it tastes as good as it probably did four months ago.
Greg: Yeah, my guess is that, you know, because I've been, one of my things that I've
Greg: been going over recently, my new passion is cladistics and phylogeny and that kind of stuff.
Greg: But learning a lot about that makes you learn about all these parts of the body and how they work.
Greg: And one of them is a better understanding of how aroma works to affect flavor.
Greg: And really, it's these volatile compounds that are coming out.
Greg: And there's a hole kind of in the back of your palate that leads up to your nose.
Greg: And that's where all those volatile compounds go and combine with your nasal
Greg: patches, all those sensors, and that combines with the taste to create what we call flavor.
Greg: So I think what happens here is that the volatiles have died down.
Greg: So you're not getting that kind of big burst. You're still getting a good flavor
Greg: here, but you're not getting the fullness that it would have.
Greg: Because, yeah, those volatiles are not long-lasting.
Jeff: Yeah, it was probably super bright. I still think it's really enjoyable.
Jeff: It has kind of a more of a creamsicle kind of vibe to it.
Shannon: It does have it.
Jeff: And mine's gone. So that was wow.
Shannon: Yeah, you went through it.
Greg: There's a little bit of like a vanilla note there.
Shannon: To me, it's just very bready. That's what I'm picking up the most.
Shannon: I mean, citrusy and bready.
Greg: I could see it being interpreted that way too. I think that it can go either
Greg: way, that particular note that I'm interpreting as could very well just be,
Greg: you call it bready and it's the same thing.
Shannon: Yeah.
Shannon: It's good.
Jeff: I mean, yeah, if we go back, this is a must revisit because it was,
Jeff: there was other good breweries that did other things well, but this one for
Jeff: doing hazies, they just were bright. They were distinct and flavorful.
Jeff: They were head and shoulders above what's average out there.
Greg: These guys are in New York?
Jeff: Yeah, they're right on one of the Finger Lakes.
Jeff: They're kind of on a secluded side of the Finger Lake, Like on the other side
Jeff: of the lake, there's access to Watkins Glen and like a dozen breweries.
Jeff: But on the Aurora side, it takes like probably close to an hour to drive around the lake.
Greg: Well, that was very good. Yeah. I mean, what I liked about that was I have not
Greg: had hazies in a long time.
Greg: I try to avoid them generally. That was not an obnoxious hazy.
Jeff: Yeah, most of the hazies we brought back from that trip, we just drank off show
Jeff: because we know that you're generally not a big fan, but figured we'd have one
Jeff: last one there since that's probably the last easy IPA.
Jeff: Oh, the mic fell down.
Jeff: Did the thing slide out?
Greg: Yeah.
Shannon: That's weird.
Jeff: I'm going to have to get some glue. That was not expected.
Greg: But okay, we're good.
Jeff: All right. this is another beer from the same trip this one's from Prison City,
Jeff: it's a collaboration between Prison City and,
Jeff: Strange Bird.
Greg: Okay I think that's what I.
Jeff: Yeah so it says Prudent Bottled by Strange Bird but I bought it at Prison City
Jeff: it says both so I guess the Prison City people probably went to Strange Bird
Jeff: and made this beer and then we're selling it at Prison City too.
Greg: So it's a blend of Strange Birds, Belgian Golden, Oak Age Belgian Golden,
Greg: with Prison City's Mass Riot IPA.
Greg: So a Belgian Ale IPA blend, but not a Belgian IPA.
Jeff: Right.
Jeff: Prison Riot is Prison City's kind of, they won the gold medal with the GABF out of nowhere.
Jeff: bunch of years ago and uh when we were up there they
Jeff: had prison riot mass riot
Jeff: is mass stands
Jeff: for massachusetts so it's a treehouse inspired prison riot right then they had
Jeff: a vermont or like uh you know so they had different names for like inspired
Jeff: by hetty inspired by treehouse inspired by things like that so they had different
Jeff: variations on mass on prison riot it's.
Greg: Clever i can dig it this okay first
Greg: of all i want to point out is 8.2 percent aquile volume so it's a little bit
Greg: up there this has a that sort of belgiany um thing right on the nose it's got
Greg: that kind of it's got a kind of wildness and it's got a little bit of a bready note i think.
Jeff: Came in a 330 so it's a little bit small bottle like 10 ounce bottle yeah the
Jeff: aroma is a little bit like barnyard like horse blanket but there's also like cherries in there yeah.
Greg: Yeah that might not be brett i haven't had brett in a while so i'm not certain but it feels it.
Jeff: Seems like there's brett and Flanders.
Greg: Culture.
Jeff: Both in there. Like you smell the funk first and then you smell the like acidic,
Jeff: you know, like the Flanders-y stuff second.
Jeff: But it's not a Flanders red. It's a golden looks like a hazy IPA.
Shannon: It does.
Greg: Letting it warm up a little bit. I also have some other toys I brought.
Greg: One is this thing that I got sort of as a second thought as I was buying the
Greg: other thing I'm going to show you.
Greg: But this thing, I don't even know how the AI will interpret this,
Greg: if it will actually slide whistle.
Greg: It's good for meetings.
Shannon: I should get one of those from my meetings. Yeah.
Greg: But what I have is this.
Jeff: That looks, I've seen that somewhere. What is that? You showed it to me.
Jeff: I don't remember what it does, but I've seen that somewhere.
Greg: This is an otomatone. Otomatone?
Jeff: Okay.
Greg: Probably otomatone because it's Japanese. It is like a theremin type thing.
Jeff: Okay.
Greg: You turn it on and...
Jeff: So it it's shaped like a eighth note so it has a flag up on top and a big ball
Jeff: at the bottom and on the stem there's this metal bar that's some kind of capacitive
Jeff: or resistive sensor and the yeah when you slide your finger it changes the pitch.
Greg: Play with it you'll have some fun.
Jeff: There's switches in the back to change the tone.
Shannon: Cooper's freaking out over here it's like what is that it sounds like a rodent and i want.
Jeff: To kill it it also looks like learn where all the notes are you could play songs
Jeff: of this once you learn like.
Greg: Yeah once you learn like where where it is now.
Shannon: You should you guys should play some music together. Get out your other little thing.
Greg: Oh. Oh, yeah.
Shannon: Yeah.
Shannon: Should I go get my flute?
Greg: At the back, there is the switches for high-low music.
Jeff: Gotcha. Bass. I'm going to play a bass.
Shannon: Oh, there. I like that.
Jeff: You play.
Shannon: With me shannon you give it a try cooper has no idea what's.
Jeff: Going on he's like i eat it he's like greg brought it it must be a toy for me to destroy.
Greg: I wonder if like i said if the ai is just gonna completely like
Greg: mute this and it's gonna be probably nonsense but it's
Greg: a neat little toy i want to bring it to show helena uh who's you know she's
Greg: he's eight now so she'll i think she'll enjoy it for 10 minutes i don't i'm
Greg: not like giving it to her as a gift because i don't think that damien peckin
Greg: necessarily want her to have that,
Greg: but I think she'll have fun with it for 10 minutes or 15 minutes.
Greg: And it's not like it cost much. It was 20 bucks.
Shannon: So...
Shannon: Okay, I could play around with this for a while, and it would keep me busy.
Shannon: It would be a fun thing to have on a desk.
Greg: I think the help...
Jeff: Especially in an office.
Shannon: The most important thing...
Greg: Yeah, no, I think it would be cool in all of us because the most important thing is that it's cute.
Shannon: It is cute.
Greg: If it wasn't cute, it would be more annoying than it is. The fact that it's
Greg: cute, it looks like a little known and it's got a little like face.
Jeff: It would be awesome if there was a little actuator in there to make it open
Jeff: its mouth when it was playing notes.
Shannon: That's what I thought it was going to do. I'm kind of disappointed that it didn't do that.
Greg: Then would I get this for 20 bucks?
Shannon: No, for sure not.
Jeff: That'd be super cool if it sang.
Shannon: No, I think we should take a picture of it because when we do post the show,
Shannon: we should probably add a photo of, yeah, you should have a name for it.
Greg: I'm posing. Okay. I don't have a name for it yet.
Greg: I think that it's also a nice weight. It doesn't feel like ridiculously cheap.
Greg: Also a nice thing about it. So, yeah, it's well built for what it is,
Greg: which is just a little cheap plastic noisemaker.
Jeff: Sam.
Shannon: Sam? Sam?
Greg: To Sam? Yeah. It could be a Sam. It could also be like a Rufus.
Jeff: Before I said Sam, I was thinking Remy.
Greg: Like Remy Malek?
Jeff: I guess. I don't know. It just popped into my head.
Greg: I don't think Remy Malek, I
Greg: think Mr. Robot heckin' with one of those next to him as his only friend.
Greg: Okay, Wild Riot.
Jeff: Has an interesting culture to it.
Shannon: Oh, that's funky.
Jeff: Yeah, it's a blend of bread.
Greg: Yeah, definitely.
Jeff: And then, you know, it kind of gets...
Jeff: It has the, like, body of, like, a hazy IPA, right?
Greg: Right.
Jeff: It finishes with that.
Greg: I kind of like what it's doing here because sometimes the brett in these can
Greg: take over and that's the aftertaste you get.
Greg: And it's not the best. It's great as a flavor, but it's not the best aftertaste.
Greg: No. Whereas this kind of lets you taste the brett and then kind of overwhelms
Greg: it with the IPA stuff, at least in the middle.
Greg: So now I'm getting a little bit of the aftertaste of the bread there,
Greg: but it's not as potent as it would be otherwise.
Jeff: It's pretty good.
Shannon: This is one I think I would have one, but would not order a second.
Shannon: Because I think it's just, it would be too much.
Greg: Yes. Well, it's 8.2%.
Shannon: So it's a lot right there.
Shannon: But I do like how funky it is. I just don't like that aftertaste.
Greg: Yeah. I like what it's doing I really appreciate the craftsmanship here this is,
Greg: wild it's well blended this is a blend they figured out the right proportions
Greg: here they didn't just go 50-50 let's see what happens,
Greg: yeah I like this a lot I like what it's doing would I,
Greg: would I have a second one in a brewery no no.
Jeff: It's it's take home a four pack yeah.
Greg: Yeah take home a four pack enjoyed over the course of a year a year is is probably
Greg: right when you just are in the need for a little bit of funk because it gives
Greg: you a good amount of funk but not just over what not just funk,
Greg: yeah I like this I like the the bright thing the bright what kind of note is that that's,
Greg: I want to say guava, but brighter.
Jeff: Yeah, okay. Yeah, there is a tropical fruit thing.
Greg: Yeah.
Jeff: I was not focusing on that. I was just kind of painting it with a broad Belgian brush.
Jeff: But, you know, the tropical fruit comes through on that side of it.
Jeff: And then the kind of body of the New England IPA supports this.
Jeff: It's not a blend or combination that I've had that I can think of where you
Jeff: get that kind of body support on a sour beer.
Greg: Yeah. It's been a while since I had passion fruit, so I don't know if that's quite the same.
Greg: The thing I'm thinking of if I want to try to recreate this flavor would be
Greg: guava, pineapple juice, and orange juice.
Greg: And I think that would get close to it. Might put kiwi in there instead of the orange.
Greg: I'm just trying to think of, like, if I were trying to recreate this as,
Greg: like, Because I could see that flavor going well in like a cocktail.
Jeff: There is a little bit of the funky in the flavor, too. I know you were just
Jeff: focusing on the fruit parts, but up front, right at the front,
Jeff: there is a little barnyard.
Greg: Right, and that's what I love is that you have this really nice,
Greg: free, fruit-juicy thing alongside.
Greg: So you got this brightness and this barnyard together, and I think it provides
Greg: a good contrast and a good coupling at the same time.
Jeff: Yeah.
Greg: Like I said, I really, really respect the craftsmanship here.
Jeff: Drinking these beers from our harvest hosting trips makes me want to harvest host again.
Jeff: Ironically, or serendipically, we booked the ones to get down to Georgia today.
Shannon: Well, we didn't. You did all of that work. I can't take any credit for that.
Jeff: So.
Shannon: It was all you.
Jeff: Got several breweries.
Greg: Palette cleanser.
Jeff: One of the ones we're stopping at, kind of interested, is in Asheville.
Jeff: White Labs, you know the yeast company? They have a pilot brewery,
Jeff: brewery yeast factory there.
Jeff: So we're actually going to stay at White Labs for two days.
Jeff: And it's over the weekend, too, so we'll be able to.
Jeff: We're thinking about avoiding Asheville, but I think it's been long enough.
Jeff: And I think, you know, helping with tourist dollars is probably a good thing.
Shannon: Hopefully we don't come across any roads that are still, you know,
Shannon: falling down while we're pulling a camper.
Greg: All the disasters, I forgot.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: The Asheville disaster was out of my mind, but that was a huge hurricane.
Shannon: Yeah. Yeah. No.
Jeff: There's parts around Asheville that are still decimated. It's going to be years
Jeff: before like chimney rock is put back together.
Shannon: Yeah. It's such a shame.
Jeff: Oh, right.
Shannon: I just know. I genuinely do fear for the travel, pulling a camper.
Shannon: It's one thing when you're just in the truck and, you know, you come across it.
Jeff: We're just going to be on highways for almost the whole thing.
Shannon: Well, yeah.
Greg: I think we've got to go with this one next.
Jeff: But no, like...
Shannon: No, actually this one.
Jeff: Okay. You know, I thought about that, Shannon, and White Labs is up on the hill. We'll be okay.
Shannon: Okay.
Jeff: All right all right so now we're moving on to our denver trip where shannon
Jeff: ran out ran out to a conference in denver and we visited some breweries i think
Jeff: 18 on that trip one of the ones that i hit up when shannon was busy working
Jeff: was cerebral brewing and mrs blushing mirage you.
Shannon: Went without me.
Jeff: This is the one where the uh the trans person wrote me that list of oh and i got mad at you
Jeff: that and she saw what was very cutesy handwriting and you're like what is this
Jeff: and she was drunk so she i was it was the night of our party and.
Shannon: Like midnight i come into the hotel room and see this handwritten note from
Shannon: obviously it looked like it was from a woman you know and i'm like.
Jeff: Yes it was very nice handwriting and she they i'm not sure which was a very nice person but.
Greg: Yeah there's a trans woman who works at my um uh pharmacy yeah so uh i see her
Greg: all the time she's very nice and she complimented my t-shirt when i had a mystery science city.
Jeff: 2000 t-shirt and then we talked that's.
Greg: One that i get compliments on a lot.
Jeff: Yep so she gave me a whole list of places to try which very few of them i got
Jeff: to try because it was the last day in aurora slash denver so uh.
Shannon: Yeah, I guess it was, because that was Tuesday night.
Jeff: All right. Cerebral Brewing has two breweries in the Denver area. We went to one in Aurora.
Jeff: They had some really good sour stuff, and they had some really big stouts and barrel-aged things.
Jeff: And I'm sure they had things in between, but I just remember that that's what they were really...
Shannon: Okay, I have to say this. when i first put my nose on it it smelled like a fart a sour fart.
Greg: So let's explain this is at six point saint alcohol volume this is a wild ale
Greg: aged 26 month in second use chardonnay barrels conditioned on sumac berries
Greg: now you guys are you familiar with Sumac is a spice.
Jeff: Mm-hmm.
Shannon: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Greg: So for those who aren't, if you aren't, it's a Middle Eastern spice.
Greg: It kind of got a mix of like a peppery note and a citrusy note.
Greg: It's used a lot in like in kebab, that kind of stuff.
Jeff: Yeah. I'm not smelling anything sulfury that I could map back to a fart. Do you get anything?
Shannon: I don't know why.
Jeff: I'm trying to map it back.
Greg: I think it's the wildness. I think that you can get sort of that dusty,
Greg: dirty note and say, okay, it's not the smelliest fart in the world.
Shannon: No.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shannon: It's one of those that just makes you go, huh, I wonder what it's making.
Greg: It's not like the dog farted and like, oh my God.
Shannon: No, no, not at all. It's just.
Greg: Is there a port-a-potty kind of meat?
Jeff: I even sniffed at Shannon's glass there to see if hers had, you know, stratification.
Jeff: That smells the same to me. So maybe it was a fleeting thing.
Jeff: I am smelling, you know, this light funk, almost like a lemongrass-y kind of
Jeff: thing, kind of tartness.
Greg: A little bit of that ropey-ness.
Greg: Like you think of tweed, you think of dried straw.
Shannon: I'm letting it warm up a little bit. Yeah, me too.
Jeff: Oh, so I took a sip. But the sumac is totally in the flavor.
Shannon: Is it?
Jeff: When you say kebab, there's the spicing that is, it just drives.
Jeff: It drives the first sip at least.
Shannon: This would go really well with any kind of steak and kebabs and stuff. This is great.
Jeff: It's a meaty beer.
Shannon: It is.
Greg: Yeah, there's a, what is that? There's almost a kind of unctuousness to it.
Greg: it feels like it's making my mouth water.
Shannon: Mm-hmm.
Greg: I hesitate to say it's agglutamate, but it feels something like that.
Jeff: I think it's the association of, you know, meats that we've had seasoned with sumac.
Jeff: Because it's a flavor that you haven't had. And, like, I haven't had anything
Jeff: else that I can think of, really.
Jeff: So it's like, well, my brain's just drawing this automatic conclusion that it's
Jeff: a, you know, in a falafel or something, you know?
Greg: Yeah.
Shannon: A falafel.
Greg: Yeah. I have it at home. I've tried using it in certain places.
Greg: I've never found like the perfect place because it's not enough citrus to use
Greg: like citrusy, not enough pepper to use like peppery.
Greg: So it kind of where to use it, where to make it so it can at least stand out.
Greg: Not that it obviously you can put in a spice blend and it'll work fine there.
Greg: Like I think you can put that into a garam masala, for example,
Greg: and get something out of it. but
Greg: as like a highlight spice i don't think there's much you can do with it.
Jeff: So in addition to just the
Jeff: spice because the beer is totally more than just the spice the kind of sour
Jeff: that it is is more of the acidic culture kind of sour versus a saison or something
Jeff: like that so it kind of has a citric sweetness to it that's kind of i think
Jeff: where the lemongrass aroma that i i was smelling came from and.
Greg: I think the flavor is there too a lemony you know more acidic flavor more towards
Greg: that side of the aisle yeah as opposed to like for the nectar which is much
Greg: more orangey right this is much more towards that lemony side.
Jeff: Yeah it's it's,
Jeff: I would say more sour than funky. Maybe there's a funky note to the sour, but.
Greg: There is funk there. There's funk kind of, a general kind of underneath tone,
Greg: but it's not an aftertaste tone.
Shannon: I think there's more funk than sour.
Greg: Really?
Jeff: Actually, that sip, I noticed kind of a leathery, dusty leather, like.
Jeff: That's the kind of funky. In the early middle, kind of with the sumac.
Greg: Not a bready note, though, right?
Shannon: No.
Greg: It's not that.
Shannon: No.
Greg: That thing that sort of lingers and tastes like cobwebs.
Greg: This is more hay.
Jeff: This is a heck of a beer.
Shannon: It is.
Greg: It's very tasty. It's really, because of that, whatever that's doing to make
Greg: it feel very juicy, it's inviting and very drinkable.
Shannon: Yeah, it is. What'd you say the ABV was on it?
Greg: 6.6.
Shannon: Oh.
Greg: So a little above average.
Shannon: But not crazy.
Jeff: I remember this one being pretty
Jeff: expensive. I asked the person at the brewery, you know, is it worth it?
Jeff: Because I think I might have paid $22 or $25 for this one. And she was like, yeah.
Greg: It's as much as an Earl here.
Jeff: Earl.
Shannon: Earl's good. That was my grandpa's name and my dad's middle name and my brother's middle name.
Greg: Earl.
Shannon: Earl.
Greg: We found a name. It's Earl.
Shannon: Earl?
Greg: My name is Earl. I don't know if you remember that TV show.
Jeff: The show with Jason Lee. Jason Lee.
Greg: And Ethan Supley. And Jamie Presley.
Shannon: I might have to put this one at the top of my list. You haven't had a few beers yet. I know.
Shannon: I just like this. It's just so different than anything I've ever had.
Greg: Yeah, no, this is really good. This is really well done.
Jeff: The Chardonnay.
Greg: Are you getting like Okie Nose?
Shannon: Oh, Chardonnay. Chardonnay, that was, that's a, you put the nail on the head. Well, I read it.
Greg: So I can't, I can't.
Jeff: Oh, the barrels that it's put in? That makes sense, right?
Shannon: Yes, it does.
Jeff: There's a smoothness, like a slipperiness to the late mouthfeel.
Jeff: Then kind of that buttery oak kind of thing makes, it fits, yeah, for sure.
Shannon: It makes so much sense now.
Greg: Yeah, when you get those missing puzzle pieces, like, oh, okay,
Greg: everything sort of fits into place.
Greg: What I'd love to do again, if you, you know, April Fool's notwithstanding,
Greg: I'd love to, I don't know how we can do it, but I'd love to do a blind show again because it's so,
Greg: I think one of the ways that we thought about maybe, or maybe we talked about
Greg: this, was we each bring one or two beers and it's blind to the other two?
Shannon: Or why don't I just get a bunch of beers and blind them to you guys? We can do that.
Jeff: Or we can find someone.
Greg: Well, then you guys can enjoy the blind.
Shannon: I can still enjoy them. I just can't.
Jeff: We do know beer people in town, so we could have them, pay them to put together the show together.
Greg: Yeah, that'd be really cool.
Jeff: And we would probably do it a format like how the beerists do their blind shows.
Jeff: They typically get them sent in, but the bottles are all just taped over from head to toe, right?
Jeff: And then there's a card for each one and things like that.
Greg: We wouldn't be able to do it literally blind, though.
Greg: Which we've only done once.
Shannon: I mean, how could you do it literally blind? You have to be literally blind.
Jeff: We took it literally and we blindfolded ourselves and did this show.
Jeff: So we couldn't even see what the beer looked like.
Jeff: And that makes a difference.
Greg: It does. We thought Stout was an IPA.
Shannon: Really?
Jeff: You get so much expectation from what you're going to taste by looking at a beer.
Jeff: Especially when you've had as many beers and thought as critically about them
Jeff: as us. we have these biases we see this beer we know things it's not going to taste like.
Greg: Yeah you know yeah it's hard to it's hard to imagine and understand how much
Greg: your visual information is adding to all of the information you're getting about
Greg: around you so you're using that for so much,
Greg: that when it's taken away, you are kind of rudderless.
Shannon: I'm very interested in that.
Jeff: Well, we can do that too. There's no reason we can only do one kind of blind show.
Jeff: It was wild because, yeah, I mean, you look at a beer and you look at this beer
Jeff: and you're not expecting, you're like, I'm not going to taste roasty notes in
Jeff: that, so I'm not going to look for them, you know?
Jeff: I'm not going to taste, you know, smoke in that. I'm not even going to look for it, you know? Yeah.
Jeff: Dang, good beers tonight, man. It's good. I'm happy. Thanks,
Jeff: Greg, for being like, hey, you want to do a show?
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: I mean, I was waiting for the end of the month because you wanted to do a dry
Greg: January. And you did dry-ish, which is funny.
Shannon: Dry-ish, yeah. It was a very moist January.
Greg: As we said at the beginning when we talked about this on New Year's Day, you make the rules.
Greg: It's not like you're...
Greg: there's like a scoreboard that you have to go against. It's whatever your rules are.
Greg: And so if you're dryish, I think that's fine. It's whatever you set out to do.
Greg: And if you feel like you've accomplished at least something, it's great.
Shannon: I eliminated more of the carbs than I did the alcohol.
Shannon: Which, I mean, I had a goal for both. And I decided that alcohol was needed because...
Shannon: has been so cold this year in January.
Greg: We've been vortexed like crazy.
Shannon: Yeah. I mean, I think our mailman thought we were out of town all the month
Shannon: of January because I wouldn't even go out and get the mail out of the mailbox someday, weeks.
Greg: Yeah. It's okay. Let it, you know, most of it's junk anyway.
Shannon: Exactly.
Greg: I mean, all the bills I get are online. So what am I getting in the mail truly?
Greg: The only thing that was important was because my company was purchased,
Greg: there was all the new insurance and.
Shannon: Stuff like that. Yeah.
Jeff: Are you familiar with the service-informed delivery from the Postal Service?
Greg: Yes, I have that. Yeah. So I see what's coming. There's a picture of what's
Greg: coming and stuff like that. So, you know, okay, I can ignore that.
Shannon: Exactly.
Jeff: So for everyone listening, except for Greg McGill, look up informed delivery.
Jeff: And Greg is in New Zealand. so you can't.
Greg: Who knows? Maybe New Zealand's had this watch.
Jeff: They probably have a better one.
Shannon: I bet they do.
Jeff: They certainly have a better one. But yeah, you sign up for it.
Jeff: It's free. They'll send you pictures. They usually scan the envelope.
Jeff: Sometimes they miss the scanner and they'll say there's extra mail pieces that
Jeff: haven't been scanned, but it's pretty good, you know?
Shannon: It is nice, especially if the weather is not ideal for going out to your mailbox. You can...
Greg: Are we going to jump into the barley one or do you want to go into one of these?
Jeff: Is this a barley one?
Greg: Oh, no, this is a barley one. Sorry.
Jeff: And do another wildish tiny This one's from Purpose Brewing This is Peter Bukhardt's new place Oh.
Shannon: Peter Bukhardt was in New.
Jeff: Belgium New Belgium And Rodenbach.
Greg: Did New Belgian close? No.
Jeff: They're still open.
Greg: There's so many Things have changed a lot Yeah.
Jeff: New Belgium's still doing pretty good.
Greg: Where is this one let's see no this one's just whisper is this whisper of love.
Jeff: Purpose Brewing, south of Fort Collins. Still Fort Collins, I guess, but the south end of it.
Shannon: I think this was my favorite brewery of our Colorado trip.
Jeff: No, Wild Provisions.
Shannon: Oh, well, that one was really great, too.
Jeff: Jessup Farm.
Shannon: Oh, yeah, that one was really great, too. Okay.
Shannon: I did buy a hoodie from this brewery, though, because it was so good.
Greg: Yeah, there's Peter. How about it? this is interesting because so,
Greg: now I got an ad for one of the only problems with doing the show on my iPad
Greg: instead of my computer is the iPad doesn't support you block and all the ad block stuff.
Greg: So I get some ads. I got a Duke's mayonnaise on top of the thing.
Jeff: Already a fan. Don't need an ad.
Greg: Yeah.
Greg: Okay. Whisper of love is a second runnings of raspberry from their love bounce.
Greg: So the second running is they do it, use it once. Okay, let's use them again.
Greg: So this should be less intense.
Greg: But hopefully we still get...
Jeff: I mean, the raspberries are probably used on the ferment side,
Jeff: right? So these are probably soaked on boozy raspberries.
Shannon: Oh, just... It smells beautiful.
Jeff: Yeah, it smells kind of like raspberry cream candies or something like that's what I'm smelling.
Greg: One of the things you hope like for example like when
Greg: you're making stock and you like if i'm making vegetable stock which i do um
Greg: a lot especially have an instant pot it's so easy you just throw vegetables
Greg: in there after an hour or so those vegetables are done they're just fiber there's
Greg: nothing left so you hope that there's still stuff left right.
Jeff: These are sitting in a ferment.
Greg: Yeah these are not like you'll.
Jeff: Get different kinds of things out of it when we were a purpose the person working
Jeff: behind the bar was the cellar manager and she was amazing we talked with her
Jeff: for what two and a half hours or something like that just had such a good time
Jeff: just shooting the shit with her,
Jeff: Yeah, the aroma has almost like a maple syrupy thing, or no,
Jeff: I guess it's more of just a barley syrup kind of sweetness up front.
Greg: I smell raspberry, but I don't know if I'd be able to pick that up if I didn't know it was there.
Shannon: No, I would, if I didn't know raspberry, I would say it smells like a cherry pie.
Greg: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: There's kind of a syrupy barley, like, you know, if you're using liquid malt
Jeff: extract when brewing, there's a bit of the aroma from that coming out of this.
Jeff: Graham Cracker.
Greg: Graham Cracker Not bad call I like that I like Graham Cracker Yeah,
Greg: Maybe even a little What are those Like Pumpernickel Maybe even a little Like close to that.
Jeff: Okay And then if you give it a swirl That's where I kind of get those The raspberry
Jeff: flavor That kind of Reminds me of Those strawberry cream Like lozenge candy
Jeff: things That's hard candies That are strawberry cream When I give it a swirl smell.
Greg: A little bit but not that much for me.
Shannon: I tasted it already so now your call on the graham crackers i think was dead on.
Jeff: First sip on the flavor for me it has a thinner body than i would have expected oh.
Greg: That's really interesting.
Jeff: And uh yeah there's a couple very sour things The sour.
Greg: It keeps coming.
Shannon: Which is really cool.
Greg: Um...
Greg: Yeah, there's a little bit of a creamsicle note here alongside that, but not a lot.
Greg: Just a tiny bit. I think it's some of the malt coming in.
Jeff: Very. For me, it's very, very, very malty.
Jeff: Like, it tastes like, you know, like grape nuts.
Jeff: Like, you're getting, like, big, nutty, toasty.
Greg: Wow, now that you brought that in, grape nuts is a really good call.
Jeff: Yeah. Well, grape nuts is barley, right?
Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeff: But like this carries the barley, the sweet barley sugars flavor more than almost any beer.
Jeff: Like it's almost, the flavors I'm tasting taste like wort. It tastes like it's like under fermented.
Jeff: It doesn't have a body or a sweetness that feels under fermented,
Jeff: but the flavors seem under fermented. It's interesting.
Greg: But on top of that is a huge raspberry sour.
Greg: So it's not like you're getting, like, a malt soda, like a Goya malt or something like that.
Jeff: Oh, that's a good point, yeah. Maybe it is sweeter, and then the sour and the
Jeff: raspberry acid, you know, is balancing it up.
Greg: The acid is definitely cutting it a lot, because that's what acid does.
Greg: Acid cuts through flavors and kind of...
Jeff: Lick your lips. See if it tastes sweet.
Jeff: I'm not getting a lot of my lips on that. Okay. I licked my lips,
Jeff: and it tasted almost like, again, like barley syrup or something.
Greg: But I like grape nuts is such a great call because yeah.
Jeff: That's a, I hesitate to use it so often because you know, beer has barley in
Jeff: it, grape nuts or barley.
Jeff: So it could be like something you use way too much. So I almost never use it,
Jeff: but this one warranted it.
Greg: Yeah. And that's that smell you get when you're in a brewery and you smell all
Greg: the work, you know, that grape nuts.
Jeff: Oh, when we were harvest hosting at prison city,
Jeff: it was wild because we were, we got there in the morning and
Jeff: we worked all day and they we we could smell like the brewing cycle so like
Jeff: three we could smell the mash in like three times throughout the day everything
Jeff: just got super sweet and then 40 minutes later got kind of bitter and sour and
Jeff: it got super sweet and then it got bitter and sour that.
Greg: Reminds me of i was watching this thing online about how they make um uh the bomb and.
Jeff: Yeah we saw that.
Greg: Yeah and and how the fact you're like on the floor you have to wear goggles
Greg: and even that's not enough because it just.
Jeff: You know aerosolizes.
Greg: And it gets everywhere and,
Greg: Yeah, I can't even imagine.
Jeff: Yeah, that was an interesting episode. They basically went to Hot Ones and Hot
Jeff: Ones lies about how hot the hot- Oh.
Greg: That was different. Yeah. That was different. That was another thing.
Greg: But no, this was actually a First Week Feeds Presents. This was, I think.
Jeff: Esther- Okay. Oh, I remember that one, too.
Greg: Yeah, she was on the floor and doing it. But yeah, we can talk about that,
Greg: too, which is that Hot Ones, yeah, they give a description of the Scoville.
Jeff: They basically take the heat of the primary pepper in the sauce and say that's the heat of the sauce.
Greg: Right.
Jeff: And this company, who also went to the bomb and whatnot, but they put them all
Jeff: through a spectrograph, a spectromandelizer, what are they called? Spectrograph?
Greg: Was it a mass spectrometer?
Jeff: Yeah, mass spectrometer. And figured out how much capsaicin was in it.
Jeff: And the bomb was by far the hottest, as your tongue would tell you.
Jeff: And so many of the ones that are in the hundreds of thousands are not.
Greg: They're still like just 30,000.
Jeff: Yeah.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. So, and it's because of all the ingredients it's mixed with.
Greg: Yeah, the dilution factor. And whereas the, the bomb uses pure capsicum, capsicum extract.
Greg: So it's like, so there's no, there's no like diluting of that. That's there.
Greg: And yeah. So it's like the bomb is the hottest.
Greg: They put a number eight, even though pepper X, if you had a fresh one,
Greg: it would be potentially, Although they talk about how Smokin' Egg Curry doesn't
Greg: really release Pepper X, they don't know for sure.
Jeff: Well,
Jeff: They're starting, I mean, they don't, he doesn't want to lose the genetics.
Greg: Right, yeah.
Jeff: Right. If you go to Pucker Butt's website right now, you can buy a bunch of
Jeff: Pepper X versions of sauces.
Jeff: So you can get Pepper X Gator, you can get Pepper X, like things that I have.
Jeff: And there was another YouTube channel that I watched. They made this insanely spicy hamburger.
Jeff: Remember the ones where they had like, they had volunteers and they were bowing it up?
Shannon: Yes, that was great.
Jeff: But he actually went and was picking peppers with Smokin' Ed for this.
Jeff: And Smokin' Ed has a spectrometer now, so he knows exactly how hot the sauces
Jeff: are, you know, that kind of thing.
Greg: What was interesting about that video was I almost didn't watch it because I
Greg: thought, this is going to be a hit piece.
Greg: I was like, I don't really need to see it. But it was really interesting.
Greg: They didn't, I mean, they did good reporting and they reported,
Greg: you know, both the good and the bad. And they explained very well what they were doing.
Greg: And even had a spoken ad to say, yeah, yes, the number is, how do you put a number on this?
Greg: There's a certain inflation you do just for the purpose of selling stuff.
Greg: And honestly, I get it. It's not that bad of like a sin.
Jeff: So next year when I do the fundraiser, the Hot Ones fundraiser,
Jeff: I'm going to feel like such a fraud.
Shannon: You just need to forget that you watched that.
Jeff: I don't know what I'm going to do. Like, I guess I need to be a showman and
Jeff: play it up. Yeah, you have to.
Jeff: I can't say this is only 12,000 Scoville units.
Greg: It's not that much. It's at least in the 30,000. Or it was even maybe close to 60.
Jeff: I mean, but some of the middle ones where they start to get spicier.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. That's true. Like, they weren't that high.
Greg: But I think that there's also the fact that the number gets higher.
Greg: But what does that number really mean? right? Because when,
Greg: You think of, oh, in the tens of thousands means it's super hot,
Greg: but since it is a gauge scale, it doesn't really matter what the number is.
Greg: It's just a factor that you go by.
Greg: So if it's 200 to 600, 600 is a lot hotter than the 200.
Jeff: Did you see Matt Parker just did a stand-up maths where he was in the Amazon rainforest?
Greg: Yes.
Jeff: They did the stings and they did the same kind of, it was a very Scoville-esque version of pain.
Jeff: Basically, how many of these nuisance wasps that barely hurt would you rather
Jeff: get stung by than this thing?
Jeff: And then they went all the way up to a bullet ant.
Shannon: It was good, too.
Greg: Yeah, and the least nuisance one, I think Matt was probably the closest to write about it.
Greg: My guess, I've never, never having had a bullet ant sting you versus that wild
Greg: stinging you, but he was saying like 300,000 and everyone else like 300, maybe a thousand, 2000.
Greg: It's like, really? You could, yeah, you could get those little stings all day
Greg: and not have it be anywhere potentially from, I mean, they call it a bullet ant for a reason.
Jeff: Yeah. Made me not want to get stung by a bullet ant.
Greg: I mean, I already didn't want to get stung by a bullet ant, but it kind of reinforced
Greg: that. I was thinking about like,
Greg: I wouldn't even, like, there's lots of things I'd do as sort of a no permanent
Greg: damage. It'll be fun. I would not do that.
Greg: That's too long to be in pain, in that kind of pain.
Jeff: Yeah, it's at least 10 hours of pretty, well, I mean, I was thinking last summer
Jeff: when we got stung by ground hornets.
Jeff: She got stung a bunch. I only got stung three times. 13 for me.
Jeff: And, you know, even after, so it was like, sort of like a bruise for like five days.
Jeff: And then it was itchy for another five days. You know, it's just like.
Shannon: I think the whole neighborhood heard you scream.
Jeff: Like a little girl. It was crazy.
Jeff: That was wild. Because I wasn't even that close. I was just kind of in the yard
Jeff: scoping out where the thing was.
Jeff: And a wasp hornet came up and saw me. And was like, motherfucker.
Jeff: It did a beeline, a literal beeline to me, and just stabbed its butt right into my ankle.
Greg: And hornets don't die when they sting, right?
Shannon: No.
Jeff: He got stuck a little bit. Oh, okay. Like, they don't have barbs like honeybees? Okay, she.
Jeff: They don't have barbs like honeybees, but he also, like, didn't sting and went away.
Jeff: He was kind of stuck in there, and he's, like, thrashing to get loose.
Jeff: Or maybe he was thrashing to squirt more venom.
Greg: Yeah.
Jeff: I don't know which, but.
Shannon: It was in attack mode because I had already tried to run them all over with
Shannon: the mower, which is why I got attacked.
Shannon: I mean, I did run over their nest.
Greg: What you got to do is get some liquid nitrogen.
Greg: because they ain't they ain't prepared for that shit.
Jeff: As long as it runs as long as like there's not like a sword or like a trap like
Jeff: the water trap like if it goes down that comes back up like.
Greg: But I don't think they even know what to do with liquid.
Jeff: Yeah like would they I mean would.
Greg: They be like oh time to get angry but like what's happening.
Jeff: I tried using some of the powder the dinamaceous earth powder that hopefully
Jeff: they would track in it didn't kill them I'm ashamed to say this I poured a tiny
Jeff: little bit of gasoline down the hole because the vapors suffocate them.
Shannon: It's bad for groundwater.
Jeff: You're not supposed to pour gasoline on the ground.
Shannon: No, I know, but I couldn't even mow the yard. I mean, I went,
Shannon: I was terrified to mow for months.
Jeff: So I used as little amount of gasoline as I could and the vapors just kill them.
Jeff: But I was hoping I could be a little more environmentally friendly with diatomaceous
Jeff: earth, but they didn't track enough in to...
Greg: Yeah, I would totally be curious about liquid nitrogen or even just dry ice
Greg: if you threw a bunch of dry ice on there. That might be easier to get.
Jeff: That could potentially suffocate them, having it filled with CO2.
Greg: Yeah, all the CO2 is there and it's super cold. So they'd be slowed down anyway.
Jeff: Yeah. Have you seen the Adam Raguseas recently where he's playing with the cloud chamber?
Greg: No, I've kind of stopped watching Adam Ragusea stuff. He started doing all the
Greg: music shit and I'm just like, so.
Jeff: The last two he's done things with cloud chambers he would this last one was
Jeff: like how radioactive is food like bananas and stuff like that and.
Greg: Not very no it's not it's there like if you had a um you can buy like i don't
Greg: know if you watch the brainiac channel but they they sell like these little
Greg: um and i think even veritasium a little dissimilar you can you can detect it from like,
Greg: and Brazil nuts especially, apparently, but, um,
Greg: yeah, well, there's that concept of banana equivalent dose.
Greg: Yeah, so like is a banana, it's potassium really. It's a potassium that has.
Jeff: Yeah, some percentage of potassium is the isotope that has decay,
Jeff: radioactive decay to it. I can't remember the numbers.
Jeff: But it's not very much of the potassium. And he even took potassium salt,
Jeff: potassium chloride, which is, it's not really a seasoning.
Jeff: It's more of a supplement you can take if you have potassium deficiency.
Jeff: And even that was barely radioactive.
Greg: That makes sense. There is a law about alcohol in the U.S.
Greg: that it needs to be radioactive to a certain extent because they want to make
Greg: sure that it was not made from industrial processes because the carbon inside
Greg: living things is going to be somewhat radioactive.
Greg: That's what carbon dating is all about.
Greg: And the carbon that you therefore get from a living thing processed into alcohol
Greg: is radio is going to have some radioactivity.
Greg: Whereas if you did it purely from an industrial process, which you can do with
Greg: alcohol, it's not that difficult of a molecule to make.
Greg: you potentially wouldn't have some, you know, I don't think that they,
Greg: I think when I read about this and saw something about it, it's not like they actually do like a test.
Greg: It's just sort of like, it's a standard that, that is established for the purpose
Greg: of making, of, yeah, establishing that this needs to be made from a natural source.
Jeff: That's cool. I had no idea. I've never heard of that one different.
Greg: Than let's say vanilla. A lot of vanilla you get is just a vanilla,
Greg: another very simple compound.
Greg: Um, and yeah, you can just make that industrially. And I find it's fine as long
Greg: as you're not, as long as you're cooking it.
Greg: Like, I think that that, because all the cool, all the great aromatics from
Greg: good vanilla goes away if you cook it.
Greg: So if you're cooking it, just use the imitation of vanilla. It's fine.
Greg: It's the same thing you're going to get.
Greg: If you're not cooking it, like if you're going to put it into a custard,
Greg: like after it's done its thing or something like that, or into some drink,
Greg: let's say, get the good vanilla.
Greg: Like if you're going to put it into your smoothie, get the good vanilla.
Greg: If you're going to put it into a cake, get the imitation of vanilla.
Greg: It's much cheaper and it does the same thing.
Jeff: Cool. All right. You're done. channel finishers up let's do let's see this one's
Jeff: 12.4 how much is the stout.
Greg: Probably in the 11s is my guess.
Jeff: 10.5.
Greg: Oh, okay.
Jeff: I guess we'll do this out first. This is the Dark Intrigue from Victory Brewing
Jeff: sent to us by one of our listeners, Marinus.
Greg: I would kind of want to do the Bernie one first.
Jeff: All right. This isn't the Dark Intrigue. Not sent to us by Marinus.
Jeff: This is the Jackie O's and Dancing Gnome.
Shannon: Ooh, Dancing Gnome.
Jeff: Way, way, way, way.
Greg: Way, way, way.
Shannon: Which I told Greg. I really think it's a great name for a gummy.
Greg: Yes.
Shannon: Way, way, way out.
Greg: I think you're right on that. Bourbon barrel aged barley wine.
Greg: Try saying that three times fast.
Shannon: Bourbon barrel aged barley wine.
Greg: Three times fast.
Shannon: Bourbon barrel aged barley wine.
Greg: Laid to rest, they say, in Russell's Reserve Barrels for...
Greg: their flavor of Russell's Reserve. I guess that's...
Jeff: It's a rye whiskey, I think.
Greg: So it's got some whiskey in it.
Shannon: Yeah.
Jeff: I've had Russell's before. I'm pretty sure it's right.
Shannon: Oh.
Greg: Okay, there's a whiskey toffee note coming right off of that.
Shannon: Dark chocolate.
Greg: Mm-hmm, that too. 12.4 on this guy.
Shannon: Oh. Oh.
Greg: Not a small beer.
Shannon: No.
Jeff: It smells so good. It does. It does.
Greg: It smells really good. I gotta let that warm up. We haven't mentioned color
Greg: yet. We've been talking about it with the beers.
Greg: We haven't mentioned color. This is a tannish.
Shannon: It's a toffee color.
Greg: Yeah, toffee color. Cloudy.
Shannon: Yeah, it is cloudy. Cloudy. Cloudy.
Greg: Cloudy.
Shannon: Just like Pittsburgh. Cloudy.
Greg: With a chant on meatball.
Jeff: Today was so gloomy.
Shannon: It was the gloomiest day of 2025 so far. For sure. it was we're.
Greg: Getting a new pattern right now right because everything's warming up compared
Greg: to the vortex we were in um so it's.
Jeff: Like foggy all day because of snow and dew point and something or.
Greg: Yeah i mean i didn't see the outside all day.
Shannon: Oh it both of our desks face windows so i keep my curtains closed a lot though
Shannon: but i did glance out a few times and it was You could hardly even see the backyard a couple of times.
Jeff: So aroma on this guy, right? It smells boozy. It has a woodiness to it.
Jeff: The barley wine part, you know, that kind of toffee.
Shannon: Dark chocolate.
Jeff: Toffee aroma.
Shannon: I'm telling you, it's dark chocolate.
Greg: For Christmas, someone gave me these whiskey fudges, and this reminds me of them.
Shannon: Oh, whiskey fudge.
Greg: Yeah. Like little things that were wrapped like the caramels,
Greg: but it's whiskey fudge as opposed to caramel.
Jeff: That sounds good.
Shannon: Sounds really good.
Jeff: Flavor. I moved on to the flavor. Flavor on this guy.
Jeff: is malty and sweet, as you'd expect. Not too boozy on the flavor.
Jeff: There is a little hotness, I guess it's the end. Kind of gets thinner, dries out.
Jeff: A little bit of... Up front, it's kind of candy, like caramel.
Jeff: In the end, it's kind of...
Jeff: Another sip. Someone else.
Greg: Jump in. I always... And I'm, I'm, barley wines rarely satisfy me.
Greg: There is something about them that the end kind of thin, they had this sort
Greg: of circus peanut thing going on.
Greg: And that's why I didn't want to end with it. I wanted to end with something
Greg: that I think was going to be more full.
Greg: This is better than most. I would say I'm not getting as thin and no,
Greg: but I'm getting still that thinning out, you know, very sweet.
Greg: Um, there's a maple thing going on for sure.
Shannon: Oh, definitely maple. Maple is a good call, yeah. Yeah.
Greg: They say it's brewed with meadow foam honey.
Greg: Honey is another thing that thins out when you,
Greg: like, if you're not careful with it. And this isn't as thin as I would expect
Greg: something with honey to come out. So they did a good job.
Greg: But at 12.4%, they clearly, like, jammed. I mean, the barley wine is going to be up in there.
Greg: So you're sort of expecting that. But they jammed all into this bad.
Jeff: I mean, I don't disagree that it has a dryness at the end. but it has this thing
Jeff: that prevents it from being notably dry, for my opinion.
Greg: Yeah, no, I agree.
Jeff: There's kind of this candy thing right in the three-quarter taste right there
Jeff: that is like a toffee chew or...
Greg: I think this is one of the better done barley wines I've had.
Greg: I am enjoying this more than most barley wines.
Jeff: There's kind of an old-fashioned thing going on here, too, with the way the bourbon's playing.
Shannon: Like the syrup and stuff like that.
Greg: Yeah, that's not a bad call. It's not quite there, but there is that reminiscent.
Shannon: And, you know, like the bitters is kind of like filling in the gap there.
Jeff: You know, it's not quite as like spicy as Ango, but there's something that could be passable.
Greg: Or a maple Manhattan.
Jeff: Yeah.
Greg: Which is like, if you want a simple three ingredient cocktail, that'll do you well.
Greg: just put some maple syrup in that bourbon and vermouth, and you'll get sort
Greg: of very reminiscent flavors here without the thinness.
Jeff: Yeah.
Greg: But without the carbonation as well. I have noticed that a lot of those drinks
Greg: become a little bit more drinkable if we just put a little bit of like seltzer or club soda in them.
Greg: It just adds enough effervescence to be like, okay, I'm not just drinking a pure alcohol serum.
Jeff: I have to give that a try. I haven't thought of it. I'm not sure I've ever found
Jeff: myself unsatisfied with the good old... I've found myself unsatisfied with,
Jeff: like, bullshit bar old fashions.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeff: But not the good old fashions.
Shannon: The old fashioned from Maker's Day.
Greg: No, I mean, sometimes you really want to savor an old fashioned,
Greg: but sometimes you're like, I want to,
Greg: imbibe myself and get it done, but I also want to do it in a way that tastes good.
Greg: A little bit of a little bit of club soda will just make it that much more drinkable,
Greg: and quaffable, and it will just go down even quicker.
Jeff: Cool.
Jeff: Give that a try.
Greg: When we were on New Year's and I was here, which was really fun. We had a great time.
Greg: At least I did.
Shannon: I'm assuming you guys did. No, it was great.
Greg: You made eggnog.
Jeff: Oh, it was bad.
Shannon: Oh, that was so bad.
Jeff: It didn't work.
Shannon: I messed it up somehow. You ended up drinking both of ours, right?
Greg: Yeah.
Shannon: Yeah.
Jeff: It wasn't great.
Greg: It was just like booze at the end. And booze was like a little foam.
Shannon: Yes.
Jeff: This is just so foam.
Greg: And look, I don't blame you. I mean, you made like an old, you were using the
Greg: book that you graciously gave me as a present.
Jeff: The book called Inbib.
Greg: Yeah.
Jeff: I was following the process that Greg from How to Drink did from the one he liked.
Shannon: Yeah.
Jeff: And it just turned out kind of shitty. Like, pretty shitty. Like, barely drinkable.
Shannon: Very, very shitty. No, it wasn't even drinkable for me.
Jeff: For me, it was barely drinkable.
Shannon: I gave it to you. and I think Greg you gave yours to.
Greg: Yeah it was just like it just felt like I was drinking not even like a pure
Greg: good spirit it just at the end was like,
Greg: this is just I don't know and of the things that we took that day that was the
Greg: thing that like immediately had an effect on me like oh god this is hitting me right away yeah.
Jeff: I'll have to do better because I mean we had some really great drinks that.
Greg: Night though yeah and you made some excellent other drinks It was just that eggnog.
Jeff: Yeah, no. Not up to start. I even bought cognac just to make it.
Greg: I mean, look, cognac is great to have around. I love cognac. I love a sidecar.
Greg: I love a Jack Rose. A Jack Rose is so easy.
Greg: I love these things that have fruit juice and really citrus.
Greg: And a Jack Rose is just lemon juice, apple, uh, brandy and, um, uh, grenadine.
Greg: And it's a really lovely drink.
Shannon: I just like an old-fashioned old-fashioned.
Greg: Wonderful drink like there's it's hard to say like you can't go wrong with an
Greg: old-fashioned unless it's a main.
Shannon: Maker camp can but other than that we've been a couple places where you know just.
Jeff: Shit bars yeah just don't know how to make.
Shannon: Old-fashioned they don't.
Jeff: Know how to make rum and cokes.
Shannon: You know you're in trouble when they ask you what is in an old-fashioned.
Greg: Yes.
Shannon: Yeah. That's when you need to really change your mind, speaking from experience.
Greg: Like I said, when I was on the cake, I made so many daiquiris for myself,
Greg: and they're so easy and so good if everything's fresh.
Greg: It's, you know, lime, rum, and sugar.
Greg: And it's just like, you can't hide anything so if you have bad something it's
Greg: not going to work but it is very refreshing easy.
Shannon: Yeah,
Shannon: you just got me into thinking about the strawberries because it'll be strawberry
Shannon: season when we get to Florida I can't wait to get some fresh strawberries,
Shannon: strawberries should probably make a point to stop by my favorite farm and get
Shannon: a bunch A bunch and bring them home, huh?
Jeff: Now I feel like an asshole to shit I didn't push. It was the new Glarus show that Mark sent us. Oops.
Jeff: I'll get that posted.
Shannon: Mark. I'm sorry.
Jeff: The pop culture references will be out of date, but the big list will be just fine.
Greg: We've done it before. We've posted just two shows in a row.
Jeff: Yep. I was kind of looking through our notes here. The lab test.
Shannon: Oh. I don't know about you guys, but I still taste, you know,
Shannon: when you get an extremely dark chocolate, I'm getting that.
Greg: You're getting that like big bitterness and also kind of a cherry note. Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon: Yes. Thank you.
Jeff: Yeah.
Shannon: I was having a hard time.
Jeff: That's, I mean, that's what I, I'm not tasting that, but I mean,
Jeff: the cherry with dark chocolate, I agree a hundred percent.
Jeff: You get that kind of, kind of cherry vibe.
Shannon: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff: I'm more in barley soup. Like, not barley vegetable soup, but just like the
Jeff: barley flavor, the bourbon thick.
Shannon: No, the bourbon's definitely there. It's so good.
Greg: This is a really well done barley wine that I'm enjoying drinking,
Greg: which is, it's not something that I often say about barley wines.
Greg: I do still have the same complaint that I always do about barley wines,
Greg: was just that they end thin.
Jeff: You're watching Severance?
Greg: Yes.
Jeff: Yes. Want to watch Severance after the show?
Shannon: Oh, yeah. The new episode.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Jeff: Nice. Yeah.
Shannon: Sorry, folks.
Jeff: We're cutting this short. Severance is, I mean, it's doing the Lost things.
Greg: Yeah, it's doing the Lost things. And look, Lost was a fantastic show.
Greg: Yes, there are complaints you can
Greg: have about how it ended. But as it was running, it was a fantastic show.
Greg: Severance is following in that mold. I am pleased that so far they're not just
Greg: answering questions because that would bug me.
Jeff: No they're still.
Greg: Because one of the things that I love about Severance is it's mood Severance
Greg: is about the mood and the overall sort of feeling I think Mr.
Greg: Robot was a lot the same way it was about how it was evoking feels.
Jeff: Like Legion to me.
Greg: Legion too.
Jeff: Yes I didn't say that It feels like Legion.
Jeff: It almost feels like it's in the Legion universe, like the way it feels to me.
Greg: It does. There's definitely like a parallel universe thing going on.
Greg: I don't know if you noticed in the last episode, they showed the parking lot,
Greg: and it was all like 70s, 80s boxy Volvo cars.
Greg: Not a single modern-looking car there. So clearly there's some alternate universe
Greg: shenanigans going on, which is fine because it doesn't need to be our universe.
Greg: It doesn't need to be exactly like our reality.
Greg: This whole thing is kind of ridiculous anyway, but that's okay because what
Greg: you're talking, what you're looking for is your, what it really expresses as well is that feeling of,
Greg: of confinement and confusion and like, Like,
Greg: And the aura of mystery that's there, and that is more important than the vagaries of the plot.
Greg: And that's not to say the vagaries of the plot aren't, that you can't, you can ignore them.
Greg: Because if you do that, you get into sort of the Zack Schneider Westworld land where nothing...
Jeff: Doesn't have to make sense.
Greg: Nothing makes sense. And if you think about it for even a little bit,
Greg: it completely falls apart.
Jeff: It's not internally consistent.
Greg: Yeah. motivations of characters don't make any sense this is very different
Greg: the motivations of characters still make sense but that's not why i'm watching
Greg: i'm watching for the mood is presenting and the feeling that i'm getting when i'm watching it.
Jeff: Yeah it's such an unsettling mood of.
Greg: That yeah whole.
Jeff: Like thing it's uh yeah i'm totally on board for it i've i've watched the what
Jeff: you forgot from season one but need to know videos.
Greg: I didn't i didn't watch that but i was afraid i think i
Greg: talked about this i was afraid at the end of season one that i thought this one ended in
Greg: a fantastic way there wasn't i i
Greg: like don't need answers as to what they're
Greg: doing what like the the
Greg: story was they they broke through
Greg: for a minute what happens next that's up to you to decide like you that could
Greg: have been a complete season and it would have been fine so if you're going to
Greg: continue then you have to make sure that you're sticking with that same vibe
Greg: and you're not just okay i'm going to answer all the questions and then that's it.
Jeff: Yeah you don't want to answer you want you want the characters to discover.
Greg: Yes but.
Jeff: You want them to discover more questions along with.
Greg: Some of the answers you know like that kind of thing like the question should
Greg: lead to more answers like this should be a little piece of a story that is bigger
Greg: and deeper but this part that we're looking at is just kind of a side piece.
Greg: Like, maybe a couple seasons in, you can get to it, but at this point,
Greg: we're in season two, you're not at the meet yet.
Greg: So you shouldn't be getting to the meet.
Greg: You should be just sort of exploring this, like, sidearm of what's happening.
Shannon: So how many seasons do you think we're going to end up?
Greg: Well, as long as it's popular, we're going to get seasons, right?
Greg: I hope that they decide to end,
Greg: but I hope they don't decide to go game of thrones with it and then like
Greg: just decide to uh
Greg: write it off and i
Greg: hope that they one of
Greg: the things that that lost taught people who
Greg: are writing shows is make sure you come up with an answer before you have before
Greg: you introduce the question i think that was lost big thing they came up with
Greg: a question didn't quite have an answer now i will say this much there were two
Greg: shows that worked that way and were amazing shows,
Greg: Do you know what they are?
Shannon: Nope.
Greg: Questions without answers.
Greg: They wrote themselves into corners and just figured out a way to get them out.
Greg: Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.
Shannon: Oh. Okay. Wow.
Greg: Somehow they did that. They didn't know the answer to the questions they were
Greg: doing. They didn't know what they were making when they made Better Call Saul.
Greg: I think Better Call Saul is better than Breaking Bad. I.
Jeff: Mean, it's a good thing that they were a free form of Better Call.
Greg: Saul because.
Jeff: They saw like.
Greg: What worked.
Jeff: Yeah like that ria shihorn's character was like oh.
Greg: Oh okay let's go yeah yeah and look i think you can certainly be you can still
Greg: have answers that you have for your things and still be flexible about how you
Greg: get there like the path to getting to the answers doesn't have to be written in stone.
Greg: But if you're not as good as Vince Gilligan and who's the other guy who did Better Call Saul?
Greg: Peter Berg. If you're not as good as they are, don't do that because you're going to fail.
Greg: If you're Ronald D. Moore, you're Damon Lindelof, who apparently did it very
Greg: well in The Leftovers, didn't watch The Leftovers.
Jeff: So with Lost, right, they had some amazing, like, what earlier, right?
Jeff: And then it just, it was just too hype.
Greg: It was, no, the problem was, for me, the problem with Lost was that the last
Greg: season was a insult to the rest of what has been built. Because,
Greg: first of all, they kept saying it's not purgatory.
Greg: And then the last season, okay, you can call it what you want.
Greg: It was purgatory. Um, the, their answers didn't satisfy the questions that were there.
Greg: they didn't come up with a good enough excuse for
Greg: what they had made before that was internally consistent and
Greg: made sense the whole thing with the oh it all
Greg: comes down to there's a hole in the world where light comes out of and you got
Greg: to put a cork in it that was just like what does that have to do with any of
Greg: the shit that we saw like it has to relate to your characters or otherwise it
Greg: just feels if you totally like rewrite reality in the middle of the show it's not satisfying right.
Jeff: You have to stick with the reality that you think you're watching is the reality
Jeff: of the show and then have the interesting things on the edges of that.
Greg: Yeah if.
Jeff: You'd replace the reality of what you think you're watching it's just bullshit.
Greg: You can have magical shit as long as that magic
Greg: also has rules that it has to follow when you
Greg: are breaking the rules that's unsatisfying
Greg: and that is a huge problem and so
Greg: most people i think it's better
Greg: for you to define what your mystery is beforehand and
Greg: so you have a big mystery and then you
Greg: make a show about a real like a branch
Greg: of the mystery over off into here that eventually finds
Greg: its way to your mystery because you can create a lot of
Greg: really cool stuff about this branch that
Greg: your mystery is on to eventually get to your your big mystery but
Greg: you have a internal logic that it all kind
Greg: of works under yeah if i were writing a show that's how i'd do it i'm not writing
Greg: the show i'm just some schmuck who knows right now i'm enjoying severance it
Greg: could turn to shit but look like i said loss was great until it wasn't this
Greg: show could be great until it wasn't i'll enjoy it while it's great.
Shannon: Game of Thrones was great, too, until the end.
Greg: Game of Thrones was great. Game of Thrones was great.
Shannon: Until that last episode.
Greg: Until, frankly, until, like, the last couple seasons.
Shannon: No.
Greg: If you really think about it, the last couple seasons.
Shannon: Probably, but it's been a while since.
Greg: The writing kept getting worse and worse when it got away from George R.
Greg: R. Martin's writing, which was so much better.
Greg: When they stopped having books as reference, the writing got worse.
Greg: like they had they had the outline but they
Greg: didn't have the words that georgia because all
Greg: those early seasons were there were lines and and stuff from the books and like
Greg: it was really and and those were well-written books i read those and they're
Greg: really you know you can see why they were big enough to get a series made out
Greg: of them they're well done yeah.
Jeff: I mean it's Still, the balls that it took to, like, let's do this full-on fantasy
Jeff: series live action, like, when Game of Thrones started was pretty impressive.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, no, it was, and it didn't have the, and it was small until it got
Greg: bigger and bigger and bigger, and instead of, and they poured money into it,
Greg: and then those guys were like, no, we're gonna go do Star Wars, let's just end.
Greg: and just the the chutzpah of
Greg: them just destroying their
Greg: legacy completely i remember you know
Greg: it ended like right at right before the pandemic started and pandemic was a
Greg: big time when everybody was like re-watching shows or seeing things they counted
Greg: no one was like i'm gonna re-watch all game of thrones because everyone knew
Greg: oh this ends like shit whereas i think you could re-watch Lost and enjoy a whole lot of it.
Shannon: I want to re-watch um...
Shannon: Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad. But you've already seen it twice now.
Jeff: Oh, I could watch it again. It's one of the best shows ever made.
Shannon: It is. I love it.
Greg: I don't like re-watching things a lot.
Jeff: Yeah.
Greg: Because sometimes I feel like I'm just, you know, I could be spending my time
Greg: watching something new.
Shannon: Or just completely wasting your time and you should be doing something different.
Greg: Yeah, so when people are like, oh, I've re-watched Star Trek TNG for the 10th
Greg: time. I'm just like, what?
Jeff: Have you watched Silo on Apple TV at all? No.
Shannon: Oh.
Jeff: Oh, I think Greg would, I don't know. I can't guarantee Greg would love it.
Jeff: I read or listened to the whole series of audiobooks.
Shannon: We, we, we.
Jeff: You listened to all of them too? Okay.
Shannon: We did together.
Jeff: Okay. Yeah, I guess we did.
Shannon: You don't remember? Yeah, okay.
Jeff: The world building is really good. The show does a pretty good job of doing
Jeff: a good thing. I think you should give it a chance.
Shannon: Yeah, you should.
Jeff: You should see. They just finished the second season.
Greg: Apple TV is a very low hit rate. Severus is kind of the only thing on Apple
Greg: TV that's hit with me. What's that?
Jeff: For All Mankind?
Greg: For All Mankind is total shit as far as I'm concerned.
Shannon: Oh, really?
Greg: Yeah, no, I hated it.
Shannon: I really liked that one.
Greg: And you'd say, like, that's right up my alley. That kind of shit. Yeah.
Jeff: And you didn't like it, huh? I didn't like it. Did you like Man in the Hightower or whatever?
Greg: I didn't watch that.
Jeff: I mean, that's another alternate histories thing.
Greg: I liked Fringe until, like, I liked Fringe up until, like, through the third
Greg: season, Fringe was awesome. And through, like, half the fourth season.
Shannon: I saw Fringe. When was that out?
Greg: Fringe, actually, it kind of was like.
Jeff: Okay. It was a Fox show.
Greg: Wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. it was um it was really early
Greg: jj abrams like after felicity and maybe
Greg: around the same time but like it started
Greg: actually a little slow and then it got really really cool as alternate universe
Greg: type of stuff and then petered out and kind of like but but for for a period
Greg: of time it was like whoa this is fantastic there's so many cool things that
Greg: are happening and so many cool ideas that are being so.
Jeff: I mean if i would say if you're going to do one or the other listen or read
Jeff: the the books of the silo series instead of watching.
Greg: I guess so many podcasts listen to that's probably not it uh maybe.
Jeff: It's not in the cards for you it's but if you ever get to scraping the bottom
Jeff: of the bucket try silo yeah.
Greg: There's so like there's so much on the list and what i've heard about silo is
Greg: is first of all it's really slow that's one thing i heard.
Jeff: If I was saying one or the other I would listen to the audio books yeah.
Shannon: I would agree with that I think the audio.
Greg: Books are better like post apocalypse it's.
Jeff: Well you don't know you know at the beginning is there's a civilization living
Jeff: underground in this silo.
Greg: Did you watch Fallout?
Jeff: No that.
Greg: Was on Amazon Prime.
Jeff: What was it called?
Greg: Fallout based on the games?
Jeff: Oh, no, we watched Fallout.
Shannon: Did we?
Jeff: Yeah. They had Warren Goggins as the...
Jeff: it was earlier last year it was.
Greg: Fallout as an example fallout team was fine but i really wasn't like i didn't love it.
Jeff: Yeah no it was better than shit and it was fan service and it was worth the
Jeff: watch for me i'm not gonna go back and watch it i'll watch season two when it
Jeff: comes out yeah um i think silo tells a better story it's a new story it's not
Jeff: you know video game thing,
Jeff: the show in season two I didn't.
Greg: Even finish Last of Us I got.
Jeff: Bored even the.
Greg: Episode that everyone loved I was like it's just.
Jeff: Where somebody died the episode no the.
Greg: Episode with Nick Offerman.
Jeff: Oh okay.
Greg: And I was just like I was pretty much bored throughout I don't understand why this is so amazing.
Shannon: Well you watch the bear right.
Greg: No no I don't watch the bear because I don't want to get I hate shows make me
Greg: anxious I hate movies and.
Jeff: Shit like I.
Greg: Then watch uncut gems I hate shit that makes me anxious and the bear.
Jeff: It'll make you anxious it does make me anxious the most uncomfortable thing.
Greg: Three fishes right.
Jeff: Or seven.
Shannon: Fishes seven fishes.
Jeff: Yeah it's the best episode like there's just this long shot like uncut and they're
Jeff: a bit of improv Bob Odenkirk is just ramping up the anxiety and,
Jeff: the mom is famous lady Olympia.
Greg: Dukakis I don't know.
Jeff: Anyway I've lost it don't watch it you'll hate it but it's good it's good in that the one I watch.
Greg: Is actually the episode after that because my sister said to watch this one,
Greg: Because I'm in the hospitality industry, and she thought that would be...
Jeff: Okay.
Greg: It was Forks, I think is what the name of it was.
Shannon: Yeah, I can't remember.
Greg: And that was when, what's his name? Not the main guy, but his cousin goes to
Greg: the fairly fancy place and is polishing Forks.
Shannon: Oh, yeah. That's a really good episode, too.
Greg: It was fine, but I wasn't like... I wasn't... Oh, I gotta watch this.
Shannon: I don't think you can just watch that episode. Some of the first couple episodes.
Jeff: Like where you're getting to know the stress of the restaurant and stuff,
Jeff: I think are particularly good the way they deliver it.
Jeff: And then stuff in the middle, like Seven Fishes is just kind of like the one
Jeff: you submit for the awards. and then yeah.
Greg: I think my sister episode.
Shannon: Though right after seven fishes i mean it's great but if you don't know the character.
Greg: Yeah that's.
Shannon: You know leading up to that episode you i don't think you would appreciate it
Shannon: as much as you would if you had watched all the episodes prior.
Greg: Probably not so like i think the reason why
Greg: my sister recommended it is because my sister
Greg: wasn't a big fan of community she watched a couple episodes but
Greg: she like even like um uh the you know real chaos theory which is the one with
Greg: the dice which everyone loves but i told her my favorite episode is is actually
Greg: one that jeff you and i watched together uh and it was um in the second season,
Greg: and uh um i i can't believe i can't cover the name it's my favorite fucking episode.
Jeff: The floor is Lava? No, no, no.
Greg: That is fifth season.
Shannon: Oh, I remember that shit.
Greg: It was the episode Conspiracy Theories and Interior Design. And,
Greg: That's why I can't remember.
Shannon: I don't know.
Greg: The titles are all based on my class names because it's a community college.
Greg: But this was the episode with Kevin Corrigan.
Greg: It was like, Jeff is faking a class, but it's a conspiracy class.
Greg: And the hook, the beginning hook is like, they find that he's,
Greg: the dean finds, oh, you're faking a class.
Greg: And he says, no, I'm not. And he goes to a place and it's like,
Greg: oh, it's a janitor's class. There's nothing there.
Greg: And he's like, I don't know what's going on. And then suddenly the professor of that class appears.
Greg: And the dean's like, are you what? I don't know you.
Greg: And he's like, oh, I teach night school. and so it
Greg: sort of like explained away and then the
Greg: dean's like oh okay i'm sorry for for sorry for
Greg: saying this jeff i'm sorry walks away and then
Greg: and he's like i'm so i'm also sorry for accusing you
Greg: and then jeff's like i've never seen the kind of life it's like
Greg: what he's like i don't know and jeff
Greg: is such a and and the character jeff is like he's
Greg: not like he doesn't care he's just like amused that it happened and it's like
Greg: fine that's awesome i don't know who that is whatever that's great and that's
Greg: that's the first like four minutes the episode and it is it is so,
Greg: and then it just goes from there it spirals into in this ridiculous into a bunch
Greg: of ridiculousness and it's so silly and fun that you're just like, you're swept up in it.
Greg: And that totally, my sister said after she watched it, I watched it and it was awesome.
Shannon: See, I've never watched Community.
Greg: I would recommend you watch that episode because I think that is like pure distilled,
Greg: this is what Community does.
Jeff: I'd love to watch it. Just watching like how the characters interact, it's so much fun.
Shannon: I'm kind of in that...
Shannon: low right now where i can't find any good.
Greg: Shows to watch except the.
Shannon: Ones that you have to wait until it drops the next episode you know.
Greg: The great thing about community is is very silly but it's a lot of heart a lot
Greg: of heart it's these characters grow they have relationships with each other
Greg: they go go in and out of but they they're consistently growing and you you get
Greg: to know these characters very.
Jeff: Well they're family.
Greg: Yeah and and there's and there's always heart at the at the center of the episode
Greg: it's always something where the it's structurally good and you understand what's
Greg: happening and you get to see these characters grow and learn.
Shannon: You got you sold me i'm gonna have to watch it.
Jeff: Yeah the person i couldn't remember was jamie lee curtis plays the mom.
Greg: Oh yeah she's bipolar.
Shannon: I don't know why she nails it so good she nails it horrible she does that.
Greg: Speaking of dark bad transition let's talk about this beer dark intrigue which i was saying.
Jeff: Before this beer was sent to us by a brewer at victory on our discord his name
Jeff: goes by marinus and uh yeah so this is uh their bourbon barrel aged imperial stout.
Greg: Storm Stored in bourbon barrels, 9.1%.
Shannon: So we should talk about the color.
Greg: Good call. Very, very dark brown.
Shannon: It is.
Jeff: Yeah, there's some highlights to shine through. It's not complete pitch black, not a black hole.
Greg: Yeah.
Jeff: And then onto the flavor, or I guess aroma.
Shannon: Oh, what the aroma. So I'm getting some kind of berry.
Shannon: Like a blackberry?
Greg: If anything, I'd call it a blackberry, but it's also like a chocolate.
Jeff: The first thing I'm smelling is like a baker's chocolate.
Jeff: Unsweet cocoa is the first thing I get, but no, berry, I think.
Greg: It's not that there's not a berry in there. It's just that the chocolate is more.
Jeff: Almost like a dehydrated blueberry, I think.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, or currant.
Shannon: Currant.
Greg: I got dried currants from Amazon, because where else can you get them?
Greg: And they're nice, like throwing oatmeal or something like that.
Jeff: Also, a little bit of graham cracker again in the nose.
Greg: Where do you get currants? Where do you get fresh?
Shannon: I don't know. I just assumed giant eagle only have them.
Jeff: No, currants are hard. And then a lot of the currants you can get in the United
Jeff: States are not currants. It's been so long since I've thought about this.
Jeff: But I remember back in the day when we were having currant beer in it, right?
Jeff: We learned a thing about how things that are packaged as currants are actually
Jeff: just blackberries or something.
Greg: I don't remember that, but that doesn't surprise me that much.
Greg: There's a lot of fakery going on in that food.
Jeff: Or currant jam, I think, is maybe not currants or something like that.
Shannon: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeff: Yeah i think a little bit of graham cracker on top not a huge part of the aroma but it's in there.
Greg: Do you detect a little bit of meringue,
Greg: meringue.
Jeff: I could get that like.
Shannon: I'm trying to.
Jeff: Like yeah.
Greg: Yeah yeah like.
Jeff: Top of the key lime pie like you know that kind of yeah like try to separate
Jeff: out the the citrus though yeah.
Greg: I guess it's more that meringue is sweetened with a lot of sugar.
Shannon: Yeah, no, okay. I can, now that I'm...
Jeff: But like a meringue has a thing, right? Especially after it's baked and it has
Jeff: some caramelization. It's almost like a marshmallow.
Greg: Like a toasted marshmallow.
Shannon: Yeah, that's what I was going to say, toasted marshmallow. Kind of like that.
Shannon: But it's very distinct. It's not a toasted marshmallow flavor.
Shannon: So that's where I was hung up.
Greg: But now I'm getting a little sharpness.
Jeff: So now I'm getting the current thing that whoever mentioned it, I guess you did.
Shannon: Greg did.
Jeff: Kind of like, it took me smelling for meringue to get back to,
Jeff: it's a current meringue pie. You gotta follow the path.
Greg: You gotta follow the path.
Jeff: Now I got the currents underneath the meringue.
Greg: Okay, let's taste this bad boy.
Shannon: It's just a blackberry meringue pie. Come on.
Jeff: Mm-hmm.
Shannon: Let's make it simple. we can get blackberries at giant eagle.
Jeff: Onto the flavor not too boozy stouty
Jeff: pretty like again the cocoa the unsweet cocoa baker's
Jeff: chocolate comes a lot of roasty notes a lot of like almost charred roasty notes
Jeff: roasted almonds it's staying far enough away from char that i'm like finding
Jeff: it is kind of on the sweet side a little bit sweet to balance it's not Roasted
Jeff: almonds. It's not to the acrid side at all.
Greg: I'm getting kind of acrid. I'm getting the bits of barbecue that have turned black.
Jeff: I'm not getting that far. I think it stays appropriately far away from that for me.
Jeff: A little raisiny.
Greg: This, they clarify, is a Russian Imperial. So boozy and...
Jeff: So the one thing about Storm King is it used to be, at least when I was more
Jeff: familiar with having Storm King, very hoppy.
Jeff: I would actually age it so the hops would fade.
Greg: But this has already been aged. So...
Jeff: Well, no, we just got it.
Greg: No, this has been aged in bourbon barrels.
Jeff: Oh, okay. You're right. You're right. Yeah, we got it about a month ago.
Shannon: It was delivered in the snow.
Jeff: Left it out by the mailbox.
Shannon: Yeah, in a pile of snow.
Greg: As long as it wasn't frozen, that's right.
Shannon: The box was in a pile of snow. I mean.
Jeff: That's interesting. It has a
Jeff: Best Buy. Barrel-age beers normally have a bottle on, and you can age it.
Jeff: But they want you to drink this within six months.
Jeff: No, a year. November 625. A year.
Greg: Well within that range.
Shannon: I personally like the camp. Let me see that.
Greg: I'm starting to detect at the end of this, especially as I let it sit,
Greg: I'm getting some hoppiness.
Greg: What's that? At the end of it, as I let it sit, I'm getting the hoppiness.
Jeff: Also, at the Victory Pub in Downingtown, where Marinus works,
Jeff: they're just releasing for the first time in a very long time Baltic Thunder,
Jeff: which is the Baltic Porter, an homage to heavyweights Pakuno's hammer.
Jeff: So bringing back some old stuff finally.
Greg: But now that you mentioned the hoppiness, that's what I'm detecting is that
Greg: sharpness. Totally. It's that,
Greg: It's really almost janky hoppiness. It's kind of like this.
Shannon: Janky hoppiness.
Greg: Yeah. It doesn't, it's not like citrusy or, you know, it's like this, okay, bitter cut.
Jeff: There's a grapefruit thing.
Shannon: Grapefruit.
Jeff: A little bit of grapefruit in there. You're dead on with the grapefruit.
Greg: If grapefruit was 200% more piff, then maybe I'd agree with you.
Jeff: Well, like, lick the outside of a grapefruit.
Greg: Yeah. Do you have one?
Jeff: No, but you've done it, right?
Greg: No, no, never licked the outside of a grapefruit.
Jeff: Okay, can you make an approximation in your mind of what the outside of a grapefruit tastes like?
Greg: Well, now that you mention it.
Shannon: No, I'm kind of curious. Sorry we don't have a grapefruit. Would you like me to go to the Giant Eagle?
Greg: Yeah, how long will that take?
Shannon: I got 15 minutes.
Jeff: Oh, and you know what? I've been saying grapefruit, but I've been thinking cantaloupe.
Jeff: Lick the outside of a cantaloupe.
Shannon: No, I think grapefruit's accurate. Lick the rind of a cantaloupe. No.
Greg: I definitely haven't licked a cantaloupe.
Jeff: Why am I? It's gross.
Shannon: Have you licked a camel?
Greg: No, I've never been near a camel other than a zoo.
Shannon: A camel toe.
Greg: I've licked a camel toe for sure.
Shannon: Not like this at all.
Jeff: No, it's kind of like that pith on a melon, like a musk melon kind of thing
Jeff: is what I'm kind of getting through.
Greg: Like the closest I've gotten to that is maybe like cutting too far into a melon to get into that area.
Greg: But I know I'm not, but at least it's not memorable to me that I'm not pulling that up as a memory.
Greg: So, or the sense memory. So I don't know what that is.
Shannon: It's going to be on the news. That's something that... Man caught licking all
Shannon: of the produce. If I heard of that.
Greg: It's a rare statement.
Jeff: That goes back to a long time ago when we talk about things like taste or smell
Jeff: like granite or asphalt or stuff. Or cardboard.
Jeff: And people have asked me, have you really licked cardboard? I'm like, well, actually I have.
Greg: Oh, okay.
Jeff: I have, because I wanted to know what cardboard tastes like,
Jeff: so I could use it as a flavor thing.
Greg: A lot of that is a reference to me. Like, you can say it tastes like shit,
Greg: but I've never actually eaten shit.
Greg: I just know what it smells like, and I can sort of transfer that into taste. But...
Greg: A lot of those, you know, aroma is so much of flavor, so you figured that there's a lot of carry-through.
Greg: That's my way of thinking it tastes like, not, oh, it literally tastes like.
Greg: That said, if something does literally taste like something else,
Greg: I'll say it like Play-Doh. Play-Doh is something I've licked. That's gross as hell.
Shannon: Elmer's glue.
Greg: Never licked Elmer's glue, but licked Play-Doh. Play-Doh is,
Greg: I think, intentionally gross, so kids don't eat it. But man, is that gross.
Shannon: What other things? Like, what about crayons?
Greg: God, I feel like I must have eaten crayons, but I don't think they have much flavor to them.
Jeff: No, not really.
Shannon: No flavor whatsoever. Just whack.
Jeff: All right, I'm going to be super vulnerable here.
Shannon: Oh, no, don't do that.
Greg: All right.
Jeff: It was probably like second grade, third grade. I'm trying to remember the whole
Jeff: scenarios, but I remember it was me.
Shannon: You ate your shit. No, it was in school.
Jeff: Paste. Like, not wet paste, but dried paste.
Greg: Oh, plenty of kids ate paste. I didn't, but plenty of kids.
Jeff: I know, ate paste. And it was me and this girl that sat beside me, Melissa.
Jeff: And I forget exactly how it went down. But, like, we were eating the dried paste.
Jeff: Had a weird, neat texture to it.
Jeff: And then, somehow I got called out in front of the entire class.
Jeff: And I'm like, no, it's salt. And then I got shamed for like,
Jeff: and then I got shamed because it was like crystal and, you know, hard.
Jeff: And I got shamed for like high blood pressure for like, because salt's bad for you.
Greg: Oh my God, you're in second grade.
Jeff: I got shamed for eating salt.
Greg: You can eat a pound of salt and it's not going to hurt you.
Jeff: I got shamed for eating salt, but it was paste. And I can't remember enough
Jeff: details about why I thought it was fun to eat paste or whatnot.
Jeff: I'm Ralph Wiggum, I guess. I don't fucking know, but I'm being totally vulnerable here.
Greg: Well, here's the funny thing. The texture thing...
Greg: Those kind of textures are used in food all the time. Why do you think people like panko, right?
Greg: The textural difference, to go back to Adam Raguse, the heterogeneity of food
Greg: makes it more interesting to your palate.
Greg: So that's not like, there are pasty things that people make into food so that
Greg: there's a crunchy part and then there's a soft part.
Greg: And so you have that distinction because everything is soft and gummy and chewy.
Jeff: So I want to clarify, I wasn't eating like wet paste. It was the stuff that dried.
Greg: It was a dried paste.
Shannon: Yeah.
Jeff: Which makes me feel like there are people that eat pico.
Greg: You know pico where people eat like clay? Like there and,
Greg: that's just a you know a thing that people get into like a lot of people have
Greg: issues with textures that's like one of the reasons why they hate like sushi
Greg: or something like that or seafood because of textures.
Greg: I love different textures so
Greg: I'm all about it. So I will never shame somebody for the textural stuff.
Jeff: Yeah, because the paste really didn't have much of a flavor.
Jeff: It was non-toxic, but the crunch that it had was, I guess, what appealed to me in second grade.
Greg: I think I talked about this before.
Shannon: Which is why you like scabs. No, not scabs. I'm talking about cheese scabs.
Jeff: Oh, cheese scabs.
Shannon: Cheese scabs.
Jeff: Yes, I do. Cheese scabs are amazing. I mean, like I want a machine that just makes cheese scabs.
Shannon: Oh, me too.
Greg: What are, are those like when you cook cheese and it gets like kind of.
Shannon: Yeah.
Jeff: It bubbles out all the oil and just gets hard and crunchy and you can kind of chip it off.
Greg: Well, that's like when you make Parmesan crisps, like you put it on a soul pad.
Shannon: Yes.
Greg: I think I've told you this story, but when I was older than second grade,
Greg: certainly I was probably in like fifth grade or so,
Greg: I, when I ate potato chips, occasionally I would try to make the,
Greg: I would make with my mouth sound because I wanted to sound like it was on the commercial.
Jeff: Right, right, right.
Shannon: The big old crunch.
Jeff: Fucking advertising.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shannon: But, yeah. Speak.
Greg: Because it didn't sound like that to me.
Jeff: I'm going to have some of this beer.
Greg: Because when I eat it, it sounds like...
Jeff: You know, you were just ahead of your time on a podcast, right?
Shannon: Yeah.
Jeff: Because, like, we should glug when we drink our beers.
Shannon: Okay, here we go.
Greg: We're not going to turn this into a mukbang.
Shannon: Do you know what a mukbang is?
Jeff: I don't.
Greg: It's a korean i think it's korean where
Greg: they they eat in front it's like watch a
Greg: video of somebody eating and and yeah but
Greg: it's like i think it's more of a the social aspect of
Greg: it but it's also that hey it's amazing yeah there's an
Greg: asmr part of it um but yeah
Greg: one of the things like i was talking to to megan and she was like she hates
Greg: a bunch of textures i was like that sucks but also she hates like slurping sounds
Greg: and i was like you can't go to a ramen shop he's like i know because the ramen
Greg: in a ramen shop slurping is considered yeah uh is considered uh to be like,
Greg: a sign of respect for the for the person who is uh doing the ramen because,
Greg: you're that's i don't know it's just japanese japanese are crazy uh but yeah
Greg: slurping is like accepted him.
Jeff: Speaking of which, Squid Game, oh, that's Korean. No, it's Korean.
Jeff: Squid Game 2, fucking bullshit, man. I hate that show so much.
Greg: Squid Game, the first one was fucking bullshit.
Jeff: I hate that show. The second was even more bullshit.
Shannon: I hate it.
Jeff: They had the end of the season like at the middle mark of the season,
Jeff: so now it's like this stupid artificial cliffhanger, and it was too slow.
Greg: Like Stranger Things? Why do people like Stranger Things? I don't get it.
Greg: After the first season of Stranger Things, I was like, this should have been a movie?
Jeff: Because they didn't make a better Goonies since Goonies.
Shannon: Oh, yeah.
Greg: Yeah. But it wasn't a better Goonies.
Jeff: No, they hadn't. But if they hadn't made a better Goonies, then Stranger Things wouldn't have been.
Shannon: Wouldn't have existed, yeah.
Greg: Community has a better Goonies in it. And it's not even Goonies.
Greg: It's a diehard. But like, Modern Warfare is a better game.
Jeff: It's only like 8.51.
Shannon: Well, I still have more to drink of this one.
Jeff: Another beer? Not another beer.
Greg: We could if you wanted to.
Shannon: Yeah. We could add another one to the show.
Jeff: I mean.
Shannon: I mean.
Jeff: We could switch over to the post show or we could have another beer.
Shannon: Our listeners have been jonesing for another episode.
Greg: That's true. So we should, we have been, we have been very lax in terms of giving
Greg: our listeners what they want, what they demand, which is more CDR. So yeah.
Jeff: So you've done those 24 hour video games.
Greg: Yeah.
Jeff: Could you imagine what like a 24 hour CBR would be like?
Greg: Kind of.
Shannon: Oh my God. Would you ever want to try it? It would still be flat on our faces.
Jeff: Okay. Let me go find a beer.
Greg: I'm done with the 24-hour game stuff because, you know, it's very similar to,
Greg: you've been on like really long flights.
Shannon: Right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I haven't been on international,
Shannon: well, only to Canada, if you want to consider that an international flight.
Greg: So like when I went to Japan or when I went to South Korea, these are like 15-hour flights.
Greg: And you get, you know, the first like eight hours or so, you're like,
Greg: okay. And then you're kind of get antsy. Yeah.
Greg: And you're just like, oh, what am I doing?
Greg: And you get that last for a couple hours. And then you're just sort of counting
Greg: down the time because there's a couple hours left. You know there's only a couple hours left.
Greg: And you get kind of more anxious, but also a little bit less.
Greg: less, but, but that middle period is really.
Shannon: Is really, I can't imagine.
Greg: I've tried this time. I tried to do it where I was, I tried to not sleep very
Greg: much. So I would be sleepy on the flight.
Greg: That didn't work at all. It just meant I was kept waking up and going to sleep
Greg: and it just made it almost feel longer.
Greg: So I would not recommend that.
Greg: Don't try to be sleep on this, on the flight. anticipating that you'll sleep
Greg: instead because i had lots of entertainment too,
Greg: instead sleep get your rest and enjoy the entertainment you have that's going
Greg: to get you through the flight better.
Shannon: I don't know i i took a direct flight from here to seattle one time and that
Shannon: was only five and a half hours yeah and that.
Greg: Ain't nothing when i went to tucson all the.
Shannon: I i just at four hours i was done i needed to get up i couldn't stand i my legs
Shannon: were driving me nuts i needed to get up and walk around i needed to run laps
Shannon: you know and you fall into.
Jeff: A trance on those across the world flights when.
Shannon: I flew to a certain point.
Jeff: Time just compressed and you just we're numb so.
Shannon: Yeah I mean like getting up and walking around is fine like I would encourage
Shannon: you to do that but you can't do that very easily without disturbing 15 people on.
Greg: Well that's one of the reasons why I always choose an aisle seat always uh window
Greg: seats are shit seats I think they're the worst seats aisle seats are far the best seats definitely.
Shannon: Middle's the worst seat yeah okay middle's the worst seat but like I was thinking
Shannon: between aisle and window.
Jeff: You didn't consider middle as an object.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Greg: Um, and look, the window is this shitty window that you can't,
Greg: that's always, like, faded anyway.
Jeff: Well, no, the benefit of the window is you never have to get up unless you want to get up.
Shannon: Yes.
Jeff: That's the benefit.
Shannon: That's why I choose the window. Yes, that's true.
Greg: But I have no problem with getting up and letting somebody go.
Greg: That doesn't bug me at all.
Greg: Having that extra space is just, it's calming to me.
Jeff: All right, so we have a choose-your-own-adventure here.
Shannon: Oh.
Jeff: We have the black raspberry nectar from Redstone Meadery. It's a mead.
Jeff: Or we have Anna from Hill Farmstead Brewery, which is a farmstead ale brewed with honey.
Greg: They're both honey.
Jeff: They are.
Shannon: I didn't do that on purpose.
Jeff: Do you want to go with the mead?
Shannon: Yeah, I agree. But I need to finish this. I've got a couple more sips.
Jeff: Okay, I'll take my time peeling the plastic off.
Greg: So this is Redstone, what's it called?
Jeff: Redstone metering. Black raspberry dish. Yep.
Jeff: Boulder, you might have been there, Greg, the time you went out the GABF.
Greg: Went out a couple times, at least twice.
Jeff: Yeah, so it was up in Boulder. I think we probably went with Basic Brewing Radio,
Jeff: but I'm not sure about that. It's this...
Greg: Remember, there was one, I think we went three times. There was one time I was
Greg: sick, like, the whole time.
Jeff: Because i was here once before i think you were with me that time but there
Jeff: was one time for i gbf i went without you so.
Greg: Yeah that was true but okay so hasn't changed at all since we were there really
Greg: um this is their first mead first release in june 2001 uh it's still the most popular,
Greg: the alcohol content is 8% the honey is 5 parts clover 1 part wildflower and,
Greg: the mead style for those who know what this means is mellow mellow,
Greg: The color is this, like,
Greg: kind of like a rosy color with a little bit of a reddish sort of tint to it, in addition.
Greg: Not getting a whole lot of aroma, but I'm going to let it sit a bit because it's pretty cold.
Jeff: You know, they have three tiers of mead there. They have the Nectars,
Jeff: which is this, which is kind of the lowest alcohol.
Jeff: Then they have the Mountain Honey ones, which are a little bit higher,
Jeff: a little bit more fruit forward.
Jeff: You know, like the fruit's more intense compared to the honey.
Jeff: And then they have the Reserve, which we actually have a bottle sitting out
Jeff: on the whiskey bar over there.
Shannon: We do.
Greg: One thing I love is that's a bottle you keep because it has a stopper on it.
Shannon: It does.
Greg: It's nice. And you can use it.
Jeff: It's cobalt blue, too.
Greg: The cobalt blue. Yeah. Yeah, so it's a great bottle in addition to getting this
Greg: stuff. A bottle you can use for a whole bunch of stuff.
Greg: Use that for olive oil. Use that for a bunch of things that you could possibly make.
Shannon: Although we just got a, I just purchased from Amazon a bottle to put the olive oil in.
Shannon: That's a spritzer and a pourer.
Jeff: It's really nice. You should get an oil spritzer if you don't have one.
Greg: I have one.
Jeff: But this is a two-in-one, which is...
Greg: I don't have a two-in-one. I have one that you pump up and you spritz.
Jeff: It feels like the syrup dispensers at a restaurant. You know,
Jeff: that's kind of what it's shaped like. I'll grab it. But it also has a spritzer on top.
Greg: Interesting. Do you pump it?
Jeff: No, you just press it. It's almost like a squirt gun.
Greg: Oh.
Jeff: Oh, okay.
Greg: Yeah, oh, interesting.
Shannon: Interesting.
Greg: Yeah, it does. Yes, it's like those Sierra things, but I guess you just spray it a little bit.
Shannon: Did you spray it a little bit?
Greg: I didn't. So you can pour it.
Jeff: To pour it, you see the little latch on top? There's a little latch on the top.
Shannon: Oh, I see.
Greg: Okay, so there's a latch that opens up the spraying thing and then there's...
Jeff: Well, the latch is for pouring.
Shannon: That's for pouring.
Jeff: It always pours. It always pours.
Greg: But if you press down the button...
Shannon: You're going to spray.
Greg: It's going to spray, but it looks like, yeah. You go to a Waffle House and have a syrup container.
Shannon: It looks exactly like a Waffle House syrup, which would make you think that
Shannon: this would pop the top up so you could pour.
Greg: But no, it sprays.
Jeff: But if you want to roast some broccoli, like tossing broccoli in olive oil just sucks, right?
Jeff: Using this to top the broccoli with some oil is great.
Shannon: You chose broccoli as the example over asparagus?
Jeff: Well, I don't roast asparagus. I cook it in the pan.
Shannon: Oh, that's true. I like to roast asparagus. So I like to spritz it with olive oil.
Greg: It's a weird, like, argument about how to prepare asparagus.
Greg: How to prepare different versions of...
Jeff: I prefer asparagus in the cast iron.
Greg: Different brassica.
Shannon: Yeah, and I've always made it in the oven.
Greg: Asparagus and cauliflower, those are all brassica, right?
Jeff: I assume.
Shannon: Are what?
Greg: Cabbage.
Shannon: Oh.
Greg: They're all cabbages.
Shannon: I don't know.
Greg: I know like Brussels sprouts and broccoli and cauliflower. And those are all cabbages.
Greg: All brassica. I don't know about asparagus, but I feel like asparagus is probably.
Shannon: It probably falls into the same category.
Jeff: It's a more, it's a shoot kind of plant, I think. Whatever that falls into.
Jeff: I think it's probably different. But no.
Jeff: When I want to like...
Greg: No, it's not. Okay, Bresca is not. Asparagus is not.
Greg: A lot of things are.
Jeff: Gotcha. Anyway, get an oil spritzer. Pump it or this kind.
Jeff: It definitely better. That's cool.
Greg: Yeah, I like that.
Jeff: I used to use.
Greg: The thing I have, you have to pump.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: And then spray.
Jeff: I used to use like a restaurant, like a ketchup bottle, like the mustard bottle,
Jeff: you know, with a little conical thing you squeeze. I used to use that for oil.
Jeff: But being able to aerosolize it, atomize it, I guess, and use this saves you
Jeff: from the times you have to toss it.
Greg: The only thing I worry about that is some of the cheaper stuff you get from
Greg: Amazon, like, after a couple months, they stop working. But again,
Greg: if it's cheap, who cares?
Shannon: Yeah, it was like $12, and we've had it for four months.
Greg: So brassica is like broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, brussel spouts,
Greg: collard greens, kale turnips.
Greg: Whole bunch of stuff is just brassica a whole bunch of leafy greens are brassica.
Greg: Excuse me but that's like I was thinking about this because we had talked about
Greg: this before culinary versus,
Greg: versus biological, right? So like, and I was thinking about this in the context
Greg: of our fish conversation. Like,
Greg: culinarily, strawberries are berries.
Greg: Biologically, they're not. Culinary, like, from a biological standpoint, eggplants are berries.
Greg: Tomatoes are berries. Melons are berries.
Greg: So that's about a specific way that an ovary on a plant turns into its fruit.
Greg: And so, but culinarily, a berry is a different thing.
Greg: Biologically, the whole fish thing is about what's your biological origin?
Greg: Biologically, your fish, like from a practical standpoint, you're nothing like a fish.
Greg: but from a biological standpoint you're
Greg: not just you're a vertebrate you're a
Greg: jawed fish you're a bony jawed fish you
Greg: know you have jaws so you have to you're a vertebrate
Greg: so you have to be something along those lines involved in the water you're you
Greg: have jaws you have to be a type of fish that's where jaws evolved right like
Greg: you're still you still are that but from a practical standpoint point you're
Greg: a very different thing than what you would call a fish.
Jeff: Yes.
Jeff: I was thinking about, wow, Jaws only evolved once.
Greg: Yeah.
Jeff: Like, huh.
Greg: Well, it's, you know, if you think about the other mouth configuration.
Jeff: Like Lampard. Three times, but Jaws have evolved four times. Jaws have evolved once.
Greg: You're not thinking about pterosaurs.
Jeff: Jaws have evolved once.
Greg: Pterosaurs were not dinosaurs. They were lizards. their esquemata um.
Jeff: Okay Shannon we're gonna lose Shannon if we keep this oh.
Shannon: No I've already tasted the beer or.
Jeff: The mead and I've already formed my opinion so and give us your opinion raspberry
Jeff: jolly rancher it smells so good it has such a floral.
Greg: Raspberry I think more strawberry jolly rancher.
Shannon: Have you tasted it.
Greg: Yeah I'm tasting it right now.
Shannon: And you think strawberry more than raspberry?
Greg: It is sweeter. It doesn't have the tang that I expected.
Shannon: I mean, it is. No, you're right about the sweetness. You're right about that.
Jeff: See, I don't.
Greg: Like strawberry and apple.
Jeff: See, I can't go.
Greg: But apple gets kind of tangy, too, and there's not a whole lot of tang here.
Jeff: I can't go Jolly Rancher. There's a, like, I'm closer to. No,
Jeff: I'm just thinking of the Jolly Rancher spectrum.
Greg: I agree that it's not.
Jeff: I'm closer to, like, a raspberry vinaigrette, actually. Like, because there's a tart.
Shannon: Oh, vinaigrette?
Jeff: So it's not cloyingly sweet. The honey has a liveness to it.
Jeff: It has a down note with the blackberry flavoring.
Greg: I would expect a raspberry vinaigrette to have a bit more tartness here.
Greg: Because if I'm looking for a vinaigrette, I want it to cut with a lot of acid.
Greg: There's not a lot of acid here.
Jeff: Sure.
Greg: That's what's also hurting me in terms of the Jolly Ranch description.
Jeff: Yeah.
Greg: I'm not getting a whole lot of acid.
Shannon: No.
Shannon: It's, um... Oh... You guys were describing something earlier.
Shannon: Oh, it's got that honey.
Greg: Well, it is mead.
Shannon: It is mead.
Greg: It does feel like there's a little carbonation here.
Shannon: It fades very quickly, though. Yeah.
Greg: Kind of like kombucha-like.
Shannon: Yeah. Kombucha.
Greg: Oh, what is that flavor? Because it's really distinct. It's not...
Jeff: The clover's coming. I mean, there's a clover-y note to you.
Greg: Yes, yes, yes.
Shannon: Now I've got to taste again.
Jeff: Like the clover comes across as, I don't know, clover, man, whatever.
Greg: Yeah, who eats clover is no one, but you smell them.
Shannon: I mean, you put them in your hand.
Greg: Yeah, and you smell.
Jeff: Cloves and clover are different.
Shannon: Oh, sorry. I was thinking of cloves.
Jeff: Clover, like the field of white flowers.
Shannon: Got it. I got it. Now that makes more sense because I'm not finding a clove flavor in here at all.
Shannon: It just tastes like a delicious honey.
Shannon: Have you ever bought those little sticks of honey?
Greg: No, I haven't.
Shannon: No? Oh, next time I come across some, I'm going to buy some.
Shannon: Specifically for the show, so that you can taste them.
Greg: I would love to. I'm trying to pin down the flavor here, and I agree the clover's
Greg: there, but I feel like there's something else.
Shannon: Honeysuckle.
Jeff: Another one that's like overly sweet to me.
Shannon: I don't.
Greg: I don't know if I've ever actually tasted it. I've certainly smelled it.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: When I was a kid, I remember just saying I'm putting it under your chin,
Greg: and if it reflected light, you were.
Shannon: What?
Jeff: That's a buttercup.
Greg: What? Okay, buttercup.
Shannon: I don't know anything about buttercups. Except, yeah.
Shannon: Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. Yeah.
Greg: Yeah, but I'm trying to place that flavor and there isn't really a good.
Shannon: It's hard. There's a lot of stuff. I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on,
Shannon: but there's not because it's so distinct that it doesn't give you.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shannon: That's some crystallized honey.
Greg: Okay. Jeff, give me a spoon with some crystallized. So what kind of honey is this?
Shannon: Is this from Craig's place? Yeah, I don't know what kind of honey is.
Greg: Oh, so this is Anvil honey?
Shannon: Yeah. Yeah, so it's Anvil honey. it's not crystallized on purpose it just crystallized,
Shannon: thanks.
Greg: That is orange to it.
Shannon: It's yeah it's local orange peel it's local.
Greg: Honey there's no suck but it could be art i mean that's what i taste is i tasted
Greg: like the first thing i got was like orange.
Shannon: Orange pale.
Greg: Let's taste that clover.
Shannon: Honey. Now I'm going to taste the meat again.
Greg: There's definitely a similar thing going on, but there's a different taste. There's a different...
Shannon: This has a sweeter... You said strawberry? I think you were right about that.
Shannon: I do taste... It's sweeter like strawberry.
Greg: It doesn't have the raspberry, like, kick.
Shannon: Raspberry is more tart than strawberry is.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shannon: And this is definitely sweet.
Jeff: So going from the honey spoon to the mead, the mead is more minerally.
Jeff: There's like a limestone-y thing going on there. It's more...
Greg: Yeah, yeah, that's a good call.
Jeff: More gypsum or something like that. It's way more minerally than the honey was.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: But also as yeah more of a pretty berry-ish flavor whereas i was getting yeah
Greg: like like i said like citrus more citrus notes from um the other one but not
Greg: like acidic citrus notes like floral citrus for.
Jeff: Sure there's neat how the honey made the the dryness come across like it helped
Jeff: focus the dryness as minerality.
Shannon: Do you want to get on to ranking and we can go watch the shoots?
Shannon: Oh, let's rank. I don't know.
Jeff: I mean, we don't have to.
Shannon: These are such great ones.
Greg: We definitely don't have to, but it is our shtick. They're...
Greg: there's no shitty beer here.
Shannon: No. No, not at all.
Greg: There are beers that are not as good as the others, but there is no shitty beer.
Shannon: Not even close.
Jeff: No, this was, like, one of the best lineups in, like, CBR history.
Shannon: This is a fantastic line.
Jeff: Damn. I don't even know. I don't know.
Greg: And varied, which was really neat.
Shannon: And do we have to put the mead in there in the ranking?
Jeff: We don't have to do anything. We don't have to do anything.
Shannon: I don't want to because it's going to mess up the ranking of.
Jeff: The— I don't know if I can rank. I think I just want to talk about what I like about each beer.
Shannon: Do that then. Let's change it up.
Greg: Let's do this. Let's change it up. Let's not rank, but we still got to do Marry, Fuck, Kill. Okay?
Shannon: That's a compromise. That's a compromise.
Jeff: That's easier.
Shannon: All right.
Jeff: All right. So let's talk about the beers in order, I guess.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeff: Let's talk about the Aurora Nectarone Fresh to Death.
Jeff: This was the hazy IPA that was a little bit aged, but still had a good body to it.
Greg: No, it's called a fresh death. It's probably best fresh.
Jeff: Yes. Fresh to death. Picked that up back in September.
Jeff: So a little bit of age on it.
Jeff: I don't know what else. Someone else say something.
Greg: It was good. It had lots of brightness to it. It was not an overwhelming IPA.
Greg: It didn't feel silly to me is the best way I can say it.
Shannon: I think it lost a lot of its...
Jeff: Dynamicism?
Greg: Yeah. Brightness.
Shannon: That's the word I was looking for was brightness. And I really do believe that
Shannon: if we would have had this on the show in October or November even,
Shannon: Even it would have been significantly better. Um,
Shannon: To be honest, this was at the bottom of my rank list, which is disappointing
Shannon: because this was a great brewery.
Shannon: And it was, yeah. So I think it's just because it sat in the fridge for six months.
Greg: Yeah, I don't think it would be at the bottom of my list, but I do think that
Greg: fresh, it would have been even more impressive and it would have been,
Greg: like, the brightness would have been sort of a standout.
Greg: I liked how it wasn't, like I said, silly.
Greg: It wasn't an overwhelming, like, blech.
Shannon: No.
Greg: A throw up of which a lot of N-E-I-P-A's can be.
Shannon: When I, just to be clear, can I say that when I say it's the bottom of my list,
Shannon: we have a lineup of amazing beers.
Greg: Absolutely, yeah. There's no, there's no.
Shannon: There wasn't a single bad one here.
Jeff: Yeah, a kill's going to be hard.
Shannon: Yeah, so.
Greg: I know what my kill is, but it's not like, it's not an easy kill.
Jeff: Yeah. All right. So then we had the Wild Riot. This is the blend from Strange Bird and Prison City.
Jeff: This had an amazing blend of different kinds of sours in it.
Jeff: And then the IPA, like, hazy IPA.
Greg: This had the breadiness, but I was really impressed with how it was blended and constructed.
Greg: Because it had that brightness to kind of counteract the big breadiness that you would get.
Greg: So you still get those red notes, but you've got that brightness that helped
Greg: contrast it and helped make it more of a drinkable and quaffable beer.
Jeff: I've never had a beer of this style.
Greg: Yeah, no, that's really neat. Exactly why I love it.
Jeff: I mean, this is a new style, a sour New England whatever.
Greg: A bright sour, not like a tart sour. never.
Jeff: Had a beer of this style before.
Greg: This was.
Shannon: Unique it's interesting because as we're talking about all this I'm going I
Shannon: don't know which one I'd want to marry though.
Greg: I don't know either yet.
Shannon: Like I would truly fuck any of them.
Greg: But I'm.
Shannon: Not sure I would want to.
Greg: Marry any of them I think I know which one I want to fuck I don't know which
Greg: one I want to marry yet I definitely know which one I want to kill but it's a hard luck loser kill my.
Jeff: Marry is Yeah, okay, so now let's go on.
Shannon: Well, are we going to continue talking about them, or are we just going to go
Shannon: straight to the very much?
Jeff: No, let's talk to the next beer. Whispers of Love from Purpose Breuk.
Shannon: This had that— Happy Valentine's Day.
Jeff: This is the one where we talked about grape nuts, and then had the kind of raspberry thing going on.
Jeff: This one was an interesting beer. To me, the most noteworthy thing about this
Jeff: was how it tasted so much like wort, but not like an under-attenuated beer.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. And there was that sourness of a lot of sourness still coming through,
Greg: even though it was a second running, that really helped to cut that.
Jeff: So was it sourness or was it just tart raspberries?
Shannon: No.
Greg: It was a sourness, as I remember.
Shannon: Yeah. Yeah, I specifically noted that in here. The sour bursting with sour.
Greg: Yeah, it was a lot of sour. Yeah, yeah. Like you felt like a little bit of that.
Jeff: All right.
Shannon: I mean, it wasn't one of those, it wasn't a tart sour. I mean,
Shannon: tart and sour go together, right?
Shannon: But it wasn't one of those like, oh my God, bite you type of sour.
Shannon: No, I didn't feel like it was. I just thought it was a bursting flavor for all. Okay.
Jeff: Blushing Mirage.
Greg: This was the sumac. This was the one that had that.
Shannon: That's the Chardonnay.
Greg: This is the one that had that like water.
Jeff: That mouth watery thing and that Chardonnay.
Greg: Yeah, yeah.
Shannon: Interesting that it looks like a wine bottle, a mini wine bottle.
Shannon: I didn't notice that until just now.
Jeff: You know, just revisiting all these, I've made my decision on what,
Jeff: like, the outstanding beer of tonight was.
Greg: This was really interesting, because it combined a lot of different things into
Greg: one beer that was, like, that was really a really interesting drinker.
Greg: I think we mentioned before that, like, the second one, the Wild Ale, was, like...
Jeff: Never had that style before.
Greg: Never had that style before, but also wouldn't... drink a second one at a book, right?
Greg: Like, have it, have a four-pack and do that over a year. This one,
Greg: I might have a second one.
Jeff: Oh, yeah. This one's, I've never had a meat beer like this before.
Greg: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: And I want more of this one.
Greg: Yeah, yeah. I'm with you. That was it. That was it.
Shannon: That was it.
Jeff: What we were doing, so I don't want to rank because they're too close together,
Jeff: but I think this one's my top beer of the night.
Greg: Okay.
Shannon: Well, you just rank it.
Jeff: Oh, no, I can't rank the rest, but this is my top beer of the night. This one was...
Shannon: Are you going to marry it?
Jeff: Sure something. No, my marry is going to be different.
Shannon: Oh, okay.
Jeff: All right. And then we went on to the Jackie O's and Dancing No.
Greg: This was the barley wine. This was a very good barley wine, a barley wine that
Greg: I enjoyed, which is not usual for a lot of barley wines, or at least I enjoyed
Greg: it more than most barley wines. Let me put it that way.
Greg: Still ended the barley wine way that I sort of expect was sort of that thinness,
Greg: which is why probably not unexpectedly it's, you know, my kill of the list.
Greg: Again, not because it like deserves to be killed.
Greg: It's not a bad beer in any sense of the word. It's just if for my palate,
Greg: this is the one that doesn't stand up.
Greg: But I think really tasty had a lot going for it. Just not a style I love.
Jeff: Yeah, for this one, it...
Jeff: had some neat things going on to in it for me the
Jeff: the bourbon treatment or the the whiskey treatment the
Jeff: rye the russell's came across really nice um i would have liked a little more
Jeff: something in like the three quarters taste for it you know that's where it kind
Jeff: of dried out and kind of got kind of flat um there's other things i'm forgetting about right the.
Shannon: Bourbon it was very bourbony.
Greg: Yeah which is why old fashioned bourbon the next one was running up right against it.
Jeff: Yeah so the victory is dark.
Greg: There was that to me kind of accurate note that was not what I really want out of Imperial Stout.
Jeff: I want more booze and Imperial Stout.
Jeff: I want more barrel and a barrel-aged Imperial Stout. This one was restrained in both of those.
Greg: And very hoppy.
Jeff: And then hoppiness, yeah. But that's what you get when you get Storm King is
Jeff: you get the hoppy Imperial Stout.
Jeff: I was hoping for more out of both of those dimensions. I wanted something more oaky and boozy.
Jeff: And this one was just like Storm King with a highlighter. You know, like...
Jeff: So I was hoping for more out of it.
Shannon: I like the label.
Greg: There was that bourbon-ness, there was that bourbon fudge thing that I noticed,
Greg: which was really, you know, appealing.
Greg: And we ended smooth. We ended with a really smooth, in fact, yeah, yeah.
Jeff: For sure.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: With this nectar, which is delicious.
Greg: Not overpowering in terms of flavor, but really delicious, really smooth,
Greg: really nice drinker, and a great bottle.
Jeff: For sure.
Shannon: Gosh, I don't know about the Mary Fuck Kill.
Jeff: I'll do Mary Fuck Kill first. This Redstone Meadery is my Mary. Like, this is a drinker.
Shannon: This, like, if this was on tap or— I forgot that's on the list of Mary Fuck Kill.
Jeff: If this was in the fridge, like, and just could get unlimited amounts of this, this is the one.
Shannon: That would go so well with liege waffles.
Jeff: Oh, yeah.
Shannon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got liege waffles now.
Jeff: My fuck is going to be the Blushing Mirage from Cerebral.
Jeff: That one with that sumac and all the other things.
Jeff: Beer of the Night, that's my fuck.
Shannon: Yeah.
Jeff: Kill...
Jeff: A kill is going to be...
Shannon: One of these two. I know it's so hard to do that.
Jeff: Yeah. I'm going to have to kill the victory. It was just a half tone higher
Jeff: than Storm King, and I had higher expectations for it.
Jeff: I wanted more booze. I wanted more barrel.
Greg: I'm going to agree with you, actually. I'm going to change my kill to victory,
Greg: because now that I think about it, the barley wine, I think,
Greg: was better than the victory.
Greg: was overall even though there was sort of more like
Greg: not a huge problem i mean but i think that overall i like
Greg: that more than the victory uh mary yeah that redstone if i had that on a tap
Greg: i'd love that like you know just i have water uh and i have a tap of that that'd
Greg: be so good to just have because it's not huge it's not ridiculously high in
Greg: alcohol it's great flavor go long thing and And,
Greg: hey, yeah, you can pour it into a pan and simmer it down and get a great glaze for something.
Greg: Oh, God, there's so many uses for this.
Shannon: You're really making it hard for me because I'm— Well.
Greg: I'm just saying.
Jeff: You tasted like 15 of the redstone meads when we were out there.
Shannon: I did, and I loved them. I loved them. I loved the meads.
Jeff: In that flight, this one didn't seem as impressive, but with this flight, it elevated, actually.
Shannon: Yes. Would I marry it or fuck it?
Greg: Hold on, if I may.
Shannon: Oh, yes.
Greg: My fuck is between the Mirage and the Wild Wilder.
Jeff: Oh.
Greg: Because, you know, a four-pack, you fuck it four times a year because you're
Greg: like, you know, you come back to it every once in a while.
Jeff: Friends of Ben Fitz.
Greg: Yeah, no, because it's strange, right?
Greg: It's got that thing where you're like, you have a little bit of this every once
Greg: in a while. It's got that little...
Greg: So I don't know. Like, I'm teetering between them, but I think the Blushing
Greg: Mirage overall is better.
Greg: uh i i think that it's just more like i i really really respect the wild riot uh and um,
Greg: you know i definitely if i went to the chicken ranch
Greg: uh in reno nevada and i was like okay you had to choose i'd definitely try the
Greg: wild ride at least once and enjoy it uh but i probably would go back to the
Greg: blessing mirage so i don't think that's where your your fuck consideration comes
Greg: and what would it be like the horror you get every once in a while?
Jeff: You get one shot.
Shannon: Yeah. Yeah.
Greg: So I would guess I'd go with the Blushing Mirage, but it's close.
Greg: I think those two are really close.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: I think the Blushing Mirage was just a little bit better and didn't have quite
Greg: as many things that you might call off notes as the Wild Ride.
Greg: But I loved how constructed the Wild Ride.
Jeff: Yeah. What a show. Go ahead, babe.
Shannon: All right. Well.
Jeff: You're going to marry me.
Shannon: I'm going to. Yeah. I'm going to marry you, babe. every
Shannon: day um but i'm going
Shannon: to go way off here because i really
Shannon: didn't say much about the nectron
Shannon: fresh to death but i mean it's an ipa and everybody probably already knows that
Shannon: i'm an ipa and if i'm gonna marry something i'm gonna marry this ipa this the aurora nectron because,
Shannon: Because normally, if I'm going to marry it, I'm going to be with it like every day, all day, right?
Shannon: So it's not going to be six months before I have a taste of it.
Shannon: And it's not going to be sitting on the shelf and losing some of its flavor. So I'm going to marry it.
Jeff: You hear what she just said, right? So that means I get to have sex like every day.
Shannon: Every day, all day?
Jeff: All day.
Greg: No, she's talking about a beer.
Shannon: Not a beer.
Jeff: But married. I mean, I'm married to her. So that means I get to have sex every day.
Shannon: All day. Every day, all day. Right.
Greg: I mean, I feel like it was more metaphorical.
Shannon: But okay with it. I'm just going to hold her to it.
Jeff: It's contract now.
Shannon: Let's just move on. It's contractual now. All right, y'all, help me out.
Greg: A tacit agreement.
Shannon: So that's my Mary.
Jeff: It's a good point. I mean, as far as like hazies go, this guy is.
Shannon: Yeah, it really hits it. And I mean, I love this mead.
Shannon: I don't know if I would love it all day, every day. You know,
Shannon: I think that I would get tired of it.
Jeff: Unlike me.
Shannon: Right. I never get tired of you, babe. Moving on. I would never.
Greg: Human nature. Human nature.
Shannon: Don't give me this.
Greg: You're not going to get tired of something.
Shannon: I do love the mead and I would enjoy it. as my side hustle.
Greg: You're guma, you're guma.
Shannon: Yeah. So, my fuck, that's really hard, but I'm going to have to go with that
Shannon: cerebral, the blushing mirage.
Shannon: It's a toss-up.
Jeff: We're getting a menagerie quatra here.
Shannon: Yeah. It's a toss-up because it's... Look, she's a popular whore. This wild riot is so...
Greg: She earns her money.
Shannon: Great. You guys are bad.
Jeff: Menage a quattro.
Greg: No, what is, you know, when the pimps have somebody who's like a done...
Jeff: I don't know.
Shannon: I don't know.
Jeff: I don't know.
Shannon: I don't know.
Jeff: They're a moneymaker.
Greg: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shannon: I don't know. She does it.
Greg: I mean, she gets the job done. People like her. They come back for her.
Shannon: That's me. Yes. They come back.
Jeff: All right. What's your kill?
Shannon: It's so tough, but I do have it written down, so I'm just going to go with what
Shannon: I write down and I'm just I'm sorry I'm gonna have to kill the victory yeah yeah dark,
Shannon: Even though I love the label. No, it's hard luck. It wasn't a bad beer. It's a great beer.
Shannon: They're all great. That's the thing that makes it so hard.
Shannon: But I mean, I ranked them as I was going, and that's the one I have to go with. Sorry.
Greg: Can I? I don't want to end right away, because I don't think we're going to do a post-show.
Greg: So I want to do a very quick thing about a mathy subject.
Shannon: Oh, shit.
Greg: But I want to be quick.
Shannon: Here we go.
Jeff: All right.
Shannon: Here we go.
Greg: Into Discord, which is, and I'm not sure it's right, because when I thought
Greg: about it more, I was like, maybe it's not right.
Greg: But we had talked about bases, and we talked about how if something, you know,
Greg: base 10, base 2, base 2 is binary, base 10 is what we use normally.
Greg: I feel like base 12 is the most, it's like the easiest to understand.
Greg: And I won't get into it to do anything. But there's something that occurred
Greg: to me when I was listening to something, which is a base.
Greg: Okay. So irrational, transcendent numbers like pie.
Greg: If you base pie.
Jeff: No, no, please, please.
Shannon: I have to. Just a P. Okay.
Greg: Okay, okay, I'll let you.
Jeff: She's not going to bed.
Shannon: No, I'm not leaving. I just have to pee.
Greg: If you...
Shannon: Talk about your pie while I pee.
Greg: If you do something... Okay, so if you do something in base 10, 1-0 is 10.
Greg: If you do something in base 2, 1-0 is 2.
Greg: If you do something in base pi, 1-0 is pi. Right?
Greg: What occurred to me is that base pi is equivalent to binary.
Greg: Because there's no,
Greg: the point of a base is you have an identity which is one and then you have your
Greg: number but there's no like difference that you can't pinpoint a number that is,
Greg: everything is transcendental everything is there's no like in between you.
Jeff: Don't have to have whole pies like you could have a pie and a half.
Greg: You could have a half pie but is that a what is that in terms of like how would
Greg: you represent that in base pie.
Jeff: I mean but you're talking about,
Jeff: In base pi, it'd be 1.5.
Greg: No, I'm talking about integers. Integers. Think about integers.
Greg: So, like, between 1 and 10, or 0 and 10, or 1 being...
Jeff: Are you talking about binary?
Greg: In binary, you have 1 and then 1, 0. Because you can't really define anything.
Jeff: Well, 1, 0 is the same. And 0, 1 is...
Greg: 0, 1 is 1. 1, 0 is 2.
Jeff: Oh, you're talking about backwards. Okay. Backwards from my point of view.
Jeff: and then one one is right right so it'd be pi two pi or three pi you.
Greg: Have to have a one what can you actually have a one in base pi that's a really interesting question.
Jeff: Oh because it's in it's it's in doesn't it's not an integer yeah,
Jeff: i mean you can't i would say the math people would say you can because you have
Jeff: an identity You calculus it all the way out to identity to pi,
Jeff: because you can have 1 pi, 2 pi, 3 pi.
Jeff: You can have 1 and a half pi, but you're, you, you never.
Greg: But how would you represent anything between 0, 1 and 1, 0 in base pi?
Jeff: I'm not sure I'm following what you're trying to say with that.
Greg: 0, 1 is identity. 1, 0 is the base.
Jeff: Two times the base.
Greg: No it's the base like 10 is the base 10 1 0 is the base 2 1 0 would be base
Greg: 3 that would be 3 1 0 would be base 4 sounds like you're conflating.
Jeff: How we use a decimal system with base pi like in binary.
Greg: Because the second character in binary is double the identity so the second
Greg: character the second slot.
Jeff: In binary is double the identity community.
Jeff: The third slot is quadruple the identity.
Greg: But that means it would just be integers, but what it then...
Jeff: But it would be integers mapped to an irrational number, which I think math can do.
Jeff: Wow. Because you already have pi 2 pi. It's the same thing.
Greg: I just don't see how you represent that.
Jeff: Like 2 pi r is a...
Greg: I think that probably the problem is that one... You can't really represent
Greg: the identity well in a base pi.
Jeff: I don't know. I think, I mean, I'm not necessarily prepared to argue this,
Jeff: but I think if you make the supposition that pi is your identity,
Jeff: that you can have any multiple of that identity,
Jeff: fractional multiples, decimal multiples,
Jeff: integer multiples, whatever.
Jeff: or you could have 2 pi, you could have 2.3 pi, you could have 17 pi,
Jeff: you could have, you know, like it's already done in math, like 2 pi r is what's
Jeff: the circumference of a circle, I think. Yeah.
Greg: Okay.
Shannon: All right.
Greg: Actually, let me ask one more question, because this is a question I've been
Greg: considering. This is a programming question.
Greg: But it's about, like I said, I'm really interested in phylogeny and all that stuff.
Greg: I was thinking about, because I'm working with databases to like that,
Greg: and I was thinking about, okay, let's say I had a phylogeny database.
Greg: And what I mean here is that there's a beginning parent.
Greg: And think about nodes. Think of a node graph.
Greg: These are a bunch of dots with parent and children. Yeah. Right?
Greg: And there can only be one parent, But each parent could have many children.
Greg: And that just goes down into a big tree.
Greg: So we start from one, and then that could have three, and then the one over
Greg: here could have eight, whatever.
Greg: But every node has a parent.
Greg: And potentially has children. So the question is, without any other information,
Greg: take two nodes on this graph.
Greg: What's the most efficient way to tell what is its common ancestor?
Greg: What is its most common parent?
Jeff: I mean, it sounds kind of like you're talking about factoring,
Jeff: and there's not an efficient way.
Greg: No.
Jeff: No, okay, so I'm not following that.
Greg: So, let me make it specific. Let me say I'm taking a brown recluse spider and a...
Jeff: Oh, okay.
Greg: Sea snail. Some type of sea snail. I don't know a particular name. What is the...
Jeff: Parent right of those i mean in that example i think there's two key ways to
Jeff: go about it right you make a table of characteristics and see where the overlaps
Jeff: are right or you take a table of the dna and see where the overlaps are i'm.
Greg: Saying if you just have.
Jeff: The data maybe psychologically or philosophically it's the same thing i don't know i'm.
Greg: Saying you just have the data of the nodes and their parents.
Jeff: Oh and their parents each.
Greg: Node knows its parent but that's all it knows right well.
Jeff: I mean i don't know i mean i'm missing the point because i'm thinking like you
Jeff: just kind of figure out where like how and you you choose how many degrees you
Jeff: want to put into the table but you uh you map similarities and differences here's.
Greg: My feeling okay and this is why
Greg: like programming idea because part of the
Greg: things one of the things i'm working with graph ql something about like resolvers
Greg: how to do that okay you you make an array for each of these nodes you put you
Greg: you take the nodes and you map each point of its parent up to the top so one could have.
Jeff: I thought you only knew it's immediate parent you.
Greg: Only knew it's immediate parent but each parent knows its immediate.
Jeff: Parent. Oh, okay.
Greg: Right? So you can climb up the ladder. So you take the node and you see what
Greg: his parent is, and you put that into an array.
Greg: You take that node and see what his parent is. You put that in.
Greg: Because there's only one parent, right?
Greg: A parent can have multiple children, but a child can only have one parent.
Greg: So you climb that all the way to the top.
Greg: and then you start with both of those arrays and you have a variable so you
Greg: have for the spider you have one array and for the snail you have one array
Greg: and you start at the top if they match,
Greg: then you move that value into an array into a into a variable move down if they match i'm.
Jeff: Sorry i got a piece so bad i can't hear what you're saying so let me do that
Jeff: because i do want to hear you and i have something else i wanted to bring up
Jeff: afterwards but i've lost the battle.
Greg: Okay and i can't follow what you're saying go go go go.
Shannon: Go pee go pee go pee.
Greg: Go do it.
Shannon: Why are we hearing crickets?
Greg: I don't know. I didn't press any. I literally did not press it.
Shannon: Oh, because Jeff put down his headphones on one of the buttons. On the cricket button.
Greg: On the cricket button.
Shannon: Does what I'm explaining make sense to you?
Shannon: If I was sober, it would make more sense. But yes, no, it does.
Shannon: although i'm not understanding what we're trying to accomplish.
Greg: So like i said that there's a there's a
Greg: spider a type of spider and a type of snail what is their closest relative their
Greg: closest common relative right so you could go all the way up to the top and
Greg: say life itself because everything started from life itself but then life itself
Greg: branches into three different things uh-huh,
Greg: Well, actually, okay, two different things.
Greg: You have bacteria and you have prokaryotes.
Greg: Prokaryotes then go into plants, fungi, and animals.
Shannon: He didn't wash his hands.
Shannon: What are you going to do? Too fast.
Greg: So, like, you and I would know, okay, both the spider and the snail are both
Greg: animals, so they both at least start from there. But if we don't have that information, how do we tell?
Greg: So that's the question is like, how do you program? How do you from a very simple,
Greg: like Turing machine programmatically perspective, how do you determine what
Greg: is the thing where these two split from?
Greg: Because they share a bunch and then they split.
Greg: And the question is, how do you determine quickly and efficiently,
Greg: the most quickly and efficient way only knowing what their parents are.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: How they split.
Shannon: So have you already figured this out?
Greg: My idea I think I have figured out a way I don't know how well it scales.
Greg: So my idea is you start from each.
Jeff: The,
Jeff: is there a pattern in the like identifier of the parent like a genus kind of thing? No, just random?
Greg: No, there's no other information except their parent because if
Greg: you did this if you actually made this database theoretically things can move
Greg: around right uh and you'd want to make sure the the one thing you want to make
Greg: sure is you want to enforce monofiling which means that again one parent everything
Greg: is one pair there's no multiple parents there's no things that are confused
Greg: everything is one parent and then children,
Greg: so each node has to have a parent and all those parents will combine to life
Greg: the very top node is just life it is the start.
Greg: Okay. So here's my idea. You take that parent of each of them and you turn them
Greg: into a list. An array is a list, basically.
Greg: So you make an array of starting from each of them, what their parent is,
Greg: what their parent is, all the way up to the top.
Greg: and then you start from those arrays at the
Greg: top and you say do they match if they match put that into a variable they match
Greg: at life yes put that into a variable next one they match at prokaryotes yes
Greg: put that in a variable next one they match at eukaryotes yes put that into a
Greg: variable keep going down,
Greg: you're going down into, like, Animalia.
Greg: You're going down into Bilatera.
Greg: You're going down into Protostoma.
Greg: Yeah. They match. Once they don't match, end your search, return whatever you had in that variable.
Greg: You only put something into the variable if it matches. But if it didn't match,
Greg: stop and return whatever you had in that variable.
Greg: that's your answer that's their that's their most reason to call it Ancestor.
Shannon: It's kind of backwards from what we do.
Greg: But I'm thinking about like efficiently, in order to efficiently tackle.
Jeff: I think there's, I don't know.
Greg: Because if you were to like, let's say this is 500 deep.
Greg: How, like you can't go up, look, up, look, up, look. That would be very, very inefficient.
Jeff: Make it 5 billion deep and now you can see what the problem is.
Greg: Yeah. But if you go up and then just keep going down until they don't match.
Jeff: Then you have your answer there's probably some kind of table graph theory option
Jeff: i'm thinking like rainbow tables or something like that.
Greg: Yeah so this this is what i came up with like as.
Jeff: If you can compute rainbow tables that would speed up the processing how because
Jeff: rainbow tables would kind of like recompile like relationships and stuff like that.
Greg: But again each one only knows.
Jeff: Right but you do depends are you doing this calculation once or a bunch of times
Jeff: you're doing it a bunch of times then you calculate the tables i'm.
Greg: Doing theoretically you're doing this once theoretically you did independently
Greg: independent operation every time.
Jeff: Yeah it's probably like a ray sort ray difference you know that kind of thing yeah.
Greg: Like it feels like a sort it's a sorting question right.
Jeff: Yeah ultimately it's totally sorting question yeah um i
Jeff: was just watching a three blue one
Jeff: brown about the hypothesis that every inscribed or every loop that you know
Jeff: i forget how they describe it but basically a wiggly wobbly line that connects
Jeff: to itself that there is a square inscribed with four points on that wiggly wobbly loop.
Jeff: It's a hypothesis that there is, but the proof hasn't come yet.
Jeff: They've proven that for smooth...
Jeff: like non-fractal loops where like the tangent of curves are mostly the tangent
Jeff: of the curve and not like some freaky like right angle thing.
Greg: So it's linear as opposed to.
Jeff: Yeah.
Greg: Yeah.
Jeff: So for smooth curves, there is a rectangle or square inscribed on each every
Jeff: one. I can draw it for you.
Greg: It could be, it could still be like a zero or almost zero like square.
Jeff: It's so fascinating the way that he kind of arrived at like getting towards
Jeff: a proof, right? This is what I love about math is.
Greg: That math is not numbers like people always think math is numbers not like the
Greg: the the simplest and most like inelegant math is numbers the there's so much cool.
Jeff: Stuff turned it into a 3d chart right so he
Jeff: took the um take the
Jeff: circle or take the take the wiggly thing so
Jeff: you know i'm gonna draw my fingers but you know just a wiggly thing that comes
Jeff: back around to itself right and you pick any four points or are there four specific
Jeff: points on that line that make a square yeah and the theory is that probably
Jeff: is but we haven't been able to prove that absolutely that.
Greg: Does make sense it's like a hard problem yeah.
Jeff: And but one of the ways you can kind of abstract it and a completely meaningless
Jeff: problem is you would think but who knows what.
Greg: Kind of applications it could have in the future.
Jeff: But what he was doing is you take the how does he do this He takes the,
Jeff: Comes up with a three-digit number, which is the first two, I can't remember
Jeff: how it gets, like the X and the Y.
Jeff: The Z is the length of the ray between the two points.
Jeff: And then the X and the Y are...
Greg: Something to look up. And for those of you who are interested, take a look.
Jeff: But where the manifolds intersect, it proves that those two diagonals between
Jeff: the things are equal distance, so you get the rectangle.
Greg: Manifolds are smooth surfaces, again, that do not have breaks and have discontinuities inside of them.
Jeff: Right. But where the manifolds intersect, it proves that you're at the midpoint
Jeff: of two lines of equal distance. So you get the rectangle.
Jeff: So then you got to make sure the theta of the angle between the two are the
Jeff: same. So you had a fourth dimension.
Jeff: And then he starts showing how this turns into Tauruses and Klein bottles.
Jeff: And like, so from this whole thing of the squiggly line, it gets into mapping it on.
Greg: That's fucking math, man. Math just goes everywhere just from a little bit.
Jeff: But like, I never appreciated how close a Taurus is to a Klein bottle.
Jeff: Like, it's just directionality. When it needs to come in at the opposite direction,
Jeff: it's a Klein bottle versus a Taurus.
Greg: Right. The idea with, well, I mean, a climb bottle is a Mobius loop that is
Greg: connected to itself and then uses a fourth dimension in order to do another twist.
Jeff: Right. But then he showed this thing how you can take the unit square and highlight
Jeff: the edges of it and then have directionality.
Jeff: And if the directionality is opposite, you need to slice it and flip it,
Jeff: and that's what makes a climb bottle.
Greg: Definitely sounds like you should look into general relativity because that's...
Greg: So much of this is about coordinates and about understanding how manifolds work.
Greg: Once you get that, that's general relativity.
Greg: There are boundary conditions, but general relativity is about manifolds and coordinate systems.
Greg: And when you get that, when you understand then manifolds, coordinate systems, and metrics.
Greg: Once you understand metrics, which is how you, what are distances? What does that mean?
Jeff: And so real quick, so I was watching that and like a Klein bottle versus a Taurus
Jeff: is just the tail of the thing coming in in an opposite direction, right?
Jeff: and I was out in the shed today working on upgrading my CNC router and I had
Jeff: to put cables through a cable chain. Yeah, we're just about done.
Jeff: I had to put cables through a cable chain and if I put the cable through the
Jeff: cable chain the wrong way, like it wasn't going to work, right?
Jeff: It was going to be like the Klein bottle version of the tourist that I needed, you know?
Greg: There's a topology question there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's really cool. All right.
Greg: I'm going to try to match this.
Shannon: Are you all done with the after show now,
Shannon: that sounds like me gargling with lister let me try to bring it back all right
Shannon: you want to try yeah let me try.
Greg: Oh, sorry.
Jeff: Let me get to the point. Okay.
Greg: Four, three, two.
Jeff: Ha ha ha!
Shannon: He's actually doing pretty good.
Greg: I don't know if you can hear it because of the AI, but he's kind of getting
Greg: it. He's not nailing it, but he's kind of close.
Shannon: I mean, considering this is the first time he's ever messed around with Earl. It's Earl.
Shannon: He's kind of doing it.
Greg: Now he's jamming.
Shannon: Now he's jazz.
Greg: All right. Thank you for listening to Craft Beer Radio.
Greg: We absolutely appreciate Your Your Listenership Please join our discord and
Greg: Talk to us there Craft Beer Radio discord I don't know it's a craftbeerradio.com Discord link And.
Shannon: We'll see you on April Fool's Day.
Greg: Maybe Or maybe not Or maybe not Maybe we're gonna fool you maybe if you think
Greg: of a cool April Fool's idea we'll listen,
Greg: we're.
Shannon: Up for suggestions so.
Greg: Hit us.
Shannon: Up on discord.
Greg: Talk to you later everybody.
Jeff: Here it comes here it comes.
Greg: Come on.
Jeff: Sax man come on sexy sax man.
Shannon: I don't know.
Shannon: No.
Shannon: Nice try, babe.
Shannon: All right. Let's stop the train wreck.
Shannon: The music seems so good I'm starting this next show with my flute,
Shannon: Cooper's so confused right now It makes.
Greg: Me want to.
Shannon: Say We can't be so good together Could have left this band forever But the road was gone Oh, my God.
Greg: You guys are actually doing a pretty decent job.
Shannon: Can we stop?
Shannon: Please.
Greg: Why do you listen to Craft Beer Radio? What other podcast does this?
Shannon: All right, I'm done. I'm out.
Shannon: Good night.
Greg: I know, Cooper, they're fucking nuts. I love you!
Jeff: Oh, my God.
Greg: Oh
Greg: You guys did something!
Greg: You guys didn't stop.
Shannon: You're drunk.
Greg: Stop.
Shannon: You're drunk. You're drunk. Stop.
Jeff: I might have to pose this one without the AI so we can make sure the music gets through.
Greg: You can turn off the AI for the last bit, right?
Jeff: I don't know. I don't know. Thanks, everyone. See ya!