Jeff: Welcome to Craft Beer Radio, episode 527th, on June 3rd, 2020.
Greg: Hey, everybody. This is the 20th anniversary show.
Greg: And this song, believe it or not, was number one when we did our first show.
Shannon: Very first show.
Greg: Very first show. The sentiment, not being, not able to, you gotta adjust the sound.
Jeff: It's on the wrong. There we go. It wasn't on one of my physical sliders.
Jeff: So I was like, ah, crap. How do I do that? Then I remembered how to do that on the virtual slider.
Jeff: Yeah, our 20th anniversary show. I said June 3rd. And Shannon's like,
Jeff: that's not today's date. Well, that's the date we put out our first show.
Jeff: So, yeah, 20 freaking years.
Jeff: And I've been looking at the things. If you go on our Discord,
Jeff: if you're not on our Discord, you should be on our Discord. If you go to our
Jeff: Discord, I posted the 50 largest breweries in 2005, which is interesting.
Jeff: I also posted Beer Advocates Top 100 Beers for June 3rd, 2005.
Jeff: And it's different, but it's not as different as I would have thought.
Jeff: It was late enough that a lot of those early days whales on the General Channel yesterday,
Jeff: day but i posted that other thing so it's it's up in the history of okay okay
Jeff: um yeah so feeling quite nostalgic and i think we're going to kick this off
Jeff: with this is old news meets new news what we're going to kick off with today
Jeff: because uh also on our discord we were talking about how at the world beer cup a couple.
Greg: Weeks well let's do our first beer for let's do the 90 minute first i think
Greg: we should start off with that and unless you think that we want to oh you know what.
Jeff: 90 minutes a big bitter boy i.
Greg: I hear what you're saying actually now as soon as i said it i thought i thought better yeah so.
Jeff: Um at the world beer cup in the extra
Jeff: special bitter category the gold medal was uh raise some eyebrows it was sierra
Jeff: nevada pale ale and uh greg you know um has some opinions on this which we'll
Jeff: get into but i thought it was a great crossover of like the kind of beer we
Jeff: would have had on one of our first shows yeah.
Greg: Yeah no and i i want to try it too because
Greg: you know like you said i have opinions on this and i
Greg: do want to try it to cement whether those opinions are uh accurate or not um
Greg: the there was a article that you posted um from vine pair about how about this
Greg: and i read the whole thing and um very interesting well written good article about it and i was like,
Greg: And I mentioned in Giscord that I had two thoughts that I'm going to expand on.
Greg: And the first was, this is a fucking travesty.
Shannon: Yes.
Greg: That Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is winning an ESB gold.
Greg: And the second one is, I kind of get it.
Jeff: Yeah.
Greg: And when the first thing I smelled was malt.
Shannon: Definitely.
Greg: The very first thing I smelled here was malt. And I thought about it and I said,
Greg: you know, a Sierra Nevada pale ale is a pretty malt forward beer from what I remember.
Greg: It's not a kind of pale ale that you would think of as today's pale ale.
Jeff: I've never really, drinking it thinking of a pale ale, something hoppier than your average beer.
Jeff: I've never been like super satisfied with Sierra Nevada pale ale.
Jeff: I always thought it was a little unhoppy. but maybe i never drank it thinking
Jeff: i was going for an esb maybe that's the magic hack here so.
Greg: Yeah because judges judge these blind they don't know what they're drinking
Greg: and if you are primed to think esb will you taste esb here and i will pull up
Greg: the category guidelines for esb and.
Jeff: Give Give us a quick read.
Shannon: Yeah, I'd like to hear that.
Greg: So there are two kinds. There are the American style and the English style extra
Greg: special bitter. I believe this was placed in the American style.
Greg: So we'll go with the American style. Color amber to deep copper.
Greg: In terms of color, we used to have that SRM sheet. I was thinking, what would this be?
Greg: I don't even remember.
Jeff: It's more of a gold to me.
Greg: Yeah, it's more gold. I don't think you could. Could you call that amber?
Jeff: Almost amber.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: That feels... But I guess you could... Maybe you take off some points for it. Yeah.
Jeff: And for, like, homebrewing beer judging, visual is only three points out of the 50.
Greg: So... Chill haze is acceptable at low temperatures. This is not incredible.
Greg: Well, yeah, it feels pretty cold.
Shannon: It's pretty.
Greg: So, and there's a little bit of haze in there. Yeah.
Greg: perceive malt aroma and flavor medium to medium high yeah it's definitely it's
Greg: definitely in that zone for sure now hop aroma and flavor medium to medium high
Greg: and typical of American or other hop varieties,
Greg: I'm smelling Cascade for sure.
Jeff: Motherfucker you drink this and you think ESB and it makes more sense to me
Jeff: than this beer has ever made and.
Greg: Okay it's really malty,
Greg: it's too hoppy for me like there's a pithy note that I do not get at ESBs at
Greg: all and that would immediately turn me off so,
Greg: I'm confused now because I thought that maybe it would be like it's malty than
Greg: you remember the hops are more subdued than you remember but that note i've
Greg: never gotten an esp right.
Jeff: But when i've drank this before and usually i don't know if we've ever had this on the show um.
Greg: Maybe no but.
Jeff: And usually when i'm drinking it i'm not thinking it i'm thinking
Jeff: not thinking about it all that hard so i usually find that it's a bit underwhelming
Jeff: and i've never like noticed like the malt that i'm really enjoying in this flavor
Jeff: where it has a nice um in my current perspective it's a full malt that's kind of sweet muffiny um.
Greg: It like legit this malt bill the way it tastes i could see this if you renamed
Greg: it being something close to an esb and.
Jeff: Then it freaking compliments the citrusy hops like the orange goes right into it you know.
Greg: That hop thing i don't get though like i i feel and maybe it's a chico yeast
Greg: too it's not quite hitting me in the right way but it could be um that uh,
Greg: there's something just that just strikes me as grapefruit pithy and orange pithy
Greg: and that i really do not expect to taste in esb so when i taste that that really
Greg: pulls me out completely So I get it less.
Jeff: I like the pithy comes late in the aftertaste.
Jeff: If you like, and you can take points off for that, but if you evaluate it like
Jeff: right on the flavor, I think that it's more fleshy and it fits better.
Greg: And so this is the English dialect, especially bitter. Again,
Greg: amber, deep colored, chill haze acceptable.
Greg: Perceived malt aroma is medium to medium height. Perceived hop aroma is medium
Greg: to medium height without the typical of American and other hop origins.
Greg: perceived bitterness in both of these was medium to medium high,
Greg: they both have the same exact fermentation characteristics,
Greg: low carbonation traditionally characterizes draft cast versions but in bottle
Greg: version a slight increase in carbon dioxide content is acceptable the overall
Greg: impression is refreshing and thirst quenching fruity esters are acceptable diacetyl
Greg: is usually absent in his beard but may be present at low levels,
Greg: diacetyl butterscotch-y.
Jeff: That's kind of what this is missing is a little bit of that...
Jeff: I don't know how to describe it. Like an ESB, especially if I think of like Foolers.
Jeff: It's not like a toffee beer or a caramel beer, but there's like a vibe of it.
Greg: Body, medium to full on the American. Body on the English, just medium.
Greg: And additional notes. For American entries in this subcategory exhibit,
Greg: hop aroma and flavor attributes typical of hops of many origins,
Greg: which may deviate substantially from the hallmark attributes of traditional English hop varieties,
Greg: and English style and entries in this category exhibit similar hop,
Greg: exhibit hop aroma flavor attributes typical of English hop varieties.
Greg: So I could see where this can fall under those vague that's it.
Greg: And then there's just, you know, the original gravity and all this other stuff,
Greg: but this could fall in that very vague description.
Greg: And as was noted in the article, this is an example of Sierra Nevada really
Greg: knowing their beer, knowing, looking at all of the categories and seeing which
Greg: one does this one fit best.
Shannon: Yeah, that took the time to...
Greg: And if you're thinking about just that and you're tasting this and you're thinking,
Greg: okay, it's an American sauce, so I expect the hops to be more present.
Greg: And you taste this and you think, okay, I expect a malty beer.
Shannon: Mm-hmm.
Shannon: i think it fits.
Greg: The more i taste it the more i'm i'm feeling not so much but then again i'm
Greg: tasting more and more of it uh where they don't really they don't they don't
Greg: do this this many sips yeah.
Jeff: But yeah it would be like two three sips.
Greg: You know that.
Jeff: Kind of thing.
Greg: Uh i i,
Greg: It's a fucking travesty because ESB is one of my favorite styles. I love ESBs.
Shannon: What's your favorite?
Greg: Well, I mean, Fuller is always classic, but I find most ESBs that I found on
Greg: the market are really pretty good.
Greg: There was one in Boston. I forget what it was, but I think it's like,
Greg: I think they might buy food from Rhode Island or something, but it was so good.
Greg: And I got, I think I found it. I forget.
Greg: It was really, really delicious. so I don't remember what it was but you know
Greg: Fuller's was always pretty fine it's the standard,
Greg: yeah I love the ESB style so much and this is not to me an ESB like maybe I'm
Greg: just not into the American style but the ones that I like are the English style.
Shannon: So in 2005 I mean beer has evolved so much.
Greg: Since then.
Shannon: So do you think that.
Greg: I mean You did say.
Shannon: That you thought it was a travesty then, too. So, I guess there were really
Shannon: good ESB beers back then.
Greg: No.
Shannon: Or did you just feel like this?
Greg: I don't even know whether ESB was popular enough to be like.
Jeff: Well, I mean, Harpoon had their ESB, right? I mean, they weren't.
Jeff: Fuller's was better than any of the ones I can think of that were easily available back in the day.
Shannon: So, that one was better? Yeah, Fuller's is an English import.
Greg: They originated the style oh and it was in the 80s that they did it so like
Greg: it's not a really old style it's a relatively new style yeah that's what did you read the articles i.
Jeff: Didn't read that i missed that part okay.
Greg: Um so it's yeah it's a it's a relatively new beer new style and certainly when
Greg: craft beer was not as big as it is now there were not a lot of people making
Greg: British-style ales in general.
Greg: Everyone is just making pale ales and maybe some stouts and stuff like that.
Jeff: I mean, brewpubs would have, you know, them occasionally. They would have those
Jeff: more than milds or best bidders back in the day.
Jeff: ESBs were kind of hoppier and more, you know, more closely related to what American
Jeff: pale ales were at the time.
Greg: What's curious to me, I'm going to look this up, is what is the American pale
Greg: ale, right? How does this fit in with the style of a pale ale, what it's sold as?
Greg: And let's see if I can find it.
Shannon: I don't think that it's going to describe it as being as malt forward.
Greg: That's my expectation, too. But I don't see what's going on here.
Shannon: Isn't that one that's always available when we go to a concert? Yeah.
Jeff: It's pretty widely available. I don't know if always would be.
Shannon: But I mean, I feel like most of the concerts we go to and we're limited to five
Shannon: or six beers that we can purchase. That's one of them.
Greg: So for pale ale, I see there's an English classic English style pale ale.
Greg: There is English style India pale ale. Michelle Summer Ale.
Greg: There's also America-style pale ale. Should we look at that one?
Greg: Because that's probably what you'd think.
Greg: America-style pale ale. Straw to light amber. I think this fits in terms of color there.
Greg: Chill haze is acceptable at low temperatures. Hot haze is allowable at any temperature.
Greg: There's not a lot of really hot haze here. It's pretty clear now that it's warmed up a bit.
Greg: Low caramel malt aroma is allowable. Low to medium maltiness may include low
Greg: caramel malt character.
Shannon: Yeah, see, Yeah, I don't think it fits.
Jeff: It's at the very top. It's bready.
Greg: It's not really caramel.
Shannon: No.
Greg: Perceived hop aroma high, exhibiting a wide range of attributes in floral citrus.
Greg: It's not really a wide range. It's very singular.
Greg: Perceived bitterness medium to medium high. This is pretty bitter. I'd say medium.
Greg: 3D esters may be low to high. Diacetyl should not be present. Body medium.
Jeff: Maybe they got a particularly diacetyl-y bottle of Sierra Nevada.
Greg: I'm taking this out of the cans, so it should be.
Jeff: Lightwise, it should be great, yeah. They only had the cans where I got picked this up.
Jeff: And the date, is it in common date format?
Jeff: Looks like it was canned in February, February 3rd.
Greg: So, I don't know. I was more pissed off when I first saw it,
Greg: And now, you know, I'm less like, but now that I've tasted them,
Greg: we're kind of pissed off.
Greg: But I also, Greg made a good point, which is that, you know,
Greg: I guess ESPs don't travel well, and there were just probably not a lot of good
Greg: stuff in the competition, and this just sort of rose to the top.
Jeff: Yeah. Didn't lose too many points for being off-style.
Greg: Yeah.
Greg: And so that gets into the weird thing of, should they be able to do that?
Jeff: Well, they will not award a gold medal if they think nothing is exemplary to the style.
Shannon: Oh, really?
Greg: And that's another thing that bugs me is if this is what's there,
Greg: maybe I'm just so against the America style ESB that I...
Greg: But if this is what's there, then this is the gold and I wouldn't be awarding a gold.
Jeff: Part of it is you weren't in the room where it happened.
Greg: Yes. I wasn't a judge.
Greg: I think that, if anything, the travesty is, why aren't there better and more ESBs being made?
Jeff: Yes, I agree.
Greg: And that's kind of the big takeaway, is there should never be a case where Sierra
Greg: Nevada Pale Ale wins ESB, because there should be an ESB,
Greg: a couple of them, that are way better in every way.
Jeff: I shouldn't be able to go to Deez and not find an ESB on the show.
Greg: Yes.
Greg: And that's why it's a fucking travesty more than anything else.
Greg: ESB is such a good style. And for it to be awarded to Sierra Nevada Pela just
Greg: feels like an insult. But again.
Shannon: Well, it was 2005.
Jeff: No, it was 2025.
Shannon: Oh, wait. What? No, I'm so. 2025. I thought you guys were talking about that it won in 2005.
Greg: This year. This year it won.
Greg: yeah for anybody who's confused this is the 2025 we're talking about this year i'm probably the.
Shannon: Only one that's confused my brain's dead i worked all day so.
Greg: So it's.
Shannon: Usually dead anyway.
Greg: Yeah in 2025 there should be more esps out
Greg: there better esps than sierra nevada
Greg: pale ale yeah so i
Greg: don't know yeah i i imagine that now i understand in 2005 sierra nevada pale
Greg: ale was kind of right in the middle of what a pale ale would be in their guidelines
Greg: because it would not be for example a bunch of different hops yeah there wouldn't have been any of the.
Jeff: Gen 2 gen 3.
Greg: Hops right.
Jeff: It would have just been you know you have cascade to play with and chinook to
Jeff: play with and other things but,
Jeff: alright so our second beer is another old has a very warm spot in my heart and
Jeff: a keynote place on craft beer radio it's the first lager that I enjoyed.
Greg: Yeah you were for those of you who don't want to go back all the way and listen and I don't blame you,
Greg: it's a lot of shows it's a lot of content um i'm
Greg: sure that there's some ai scraping it that we'll be able to to
Greg: replicate our personalities and and poorly but
Greg: yeah you were very unloggery because as you know that was the beginning of the
Greg: show was kind of the the height of our beer snobbiness i think in terms of where
Greg: where we were thinking because we did have that a lot of experience and so we
Greg: were thinking well you know lagers suck,
Greg: ales are good yeah.
Jeff: Dunning-Kruger in full effect.
Greg: Yeah yeah let's focus on ales.
Shannon: So tell me about this beer.
Jeff: This is Elliot Ness from Great Lakes Brewing Company it's a Vienna lager same
Jeff: kind of style as Samuel Adams Boston lager more or less oh okay,
Jeff: and I don't you know I just remember like having things like Sam Adams it tasted like,
Jeff: metallic and you know like not enjoyable and the first one that kind of was
Jeff: my gateway was this one here.
Greg: And I think that we came to a conclusion that the metallicness was sort of the
Greg: noble hop, a sort of a noble hop thing that we hadn't gotten used to.
Jeff: Yeah, probably a play of the noble hop spiciness along with the lack of esters
Jeff: from, you know, ale fermentation.
Greg: So Elliot Ness, 6.1% octoboy volume, pretty high for a lager.
Greg: But a Vienna lager, I guess it's around the side. I think Santa Matta's is a
Greg: little bit lower. but uh the hops are mount hood now how noble are mount hood hops i don't know.
Jeff: Um i mean they're not a citrusy hop i right i don't know their profile super
Jeff: well but i would think i think mount hood was probably a hop that was used by
Jeff: legacy brewers in america for brewing lagers and things like.
Greg: That and it's still being made with mount hood so like.
Shannon: Where do they get it i've never heard of it.
Greg: Um
Jeff: Most of the hops are grown in Oregon or Washington.
Shannon: Oh, okay.
Greg: German Hillertal. That's where it originates from. Okay. Yeah, Noble.
Jeff: Yeah, so it was probably, I would guess here, I'm just riffing off the top of
Jeff: my head, is, you know, there was a brewing history in the United States breaking
Jeff: German lagers and they probably isolated Mount Hood and was using it for those kind of beers.
Greg: Malted with a two-row base, Munich Cara 45 and Caramel 30. So lots of deeper, darker malts in here.
Shannon: It's got that amber color.
Greg: Here's the sb looking beer.
Jeff: Right yeah doesn't taste like an sb though no.
Greg: It doesn't probably doesn't because it's a lager first of all.
Jeff: Yep the aroma on this one toasty.
Shannon: Toasty yeah definitely toasty.
Jeff: Uh yeah it's just just what i want in you know uh like a that.
Greg: Smell nice it's got.
Shannon: A citrus i'm trying to pick up on the citrus.
Jeff: Vanilla Lagers, for people who might not know, they're similar to Oktoberfest beers.
Jeff: Usually they're a little less hoppy than Oktoberfest beers, but that's just
Jeff: a generalization and not a hard and fast rule.
Greg: Yeah, I feel like Martins can go everywhere. I've tasted Martins that go in
Greg: all different directions.
Jeff: It has a really big, you know, toffee flavor.
Greg: I like that.
Jeff: Has, um, rustic.
Greg: Right up front, a lot of, yeah, a lot of, like, yeah, rustic bread and,
Greg: uh, deep and dark bread, like, from an oven. Uh,
Greg: It's got that noble hop thing in the background, but the breadiness overcomes any sort of things.
Greg: That's probably why it was one of the first, because like the spicy note is kind of muted.
Jeff: Actually, I was going to bring up, I'm getting this late like spice.
Jeff: It's almost like it's zinging, like burning on my tongue kind of spice.
Jeff: Anyone getting anything like that?
Shannon: No, I am. And I'm thinking of my mom, when I was growing up,
Shannon: made this coffee cake every year for Christmas.
Shannon: And it's like very, that very bready flavor.
Shannon: But it had that spice and I don't know what it is, but it's reminding me of
Shannon: that spice that's in that coffee cake.
Greg: It's got a little bit of a bread pudding thing, I think, that kind of flavor.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: And it has that laggery note, which is, you know, it's the body feels like it's
Greg: a bit more aqueous than an ale in general.
Greg: I feel like it's like rimmed on the outside by a little bit of water as opposed
Greg: to where an ale feels more full.
Greg: But it also means that it feels more quaffable, more drinkable in that sense.
Greg: It doesn't feel as heavy as it's going down.
Greg: So that's the trade-off you make, I guess. You go, is it going to be better
Greg: as a lager? Is it going to be better as an ale?
Greg: I'd be curious what this beer tastes like with ale yeast.
Jeff: Oh, it'd be way different. You know, it'd be, it would have,
Jeff: I mean, it depends on which yeast, on how ester it would be.
Jeff: But the esters would bring it around. it'd probably be more like a dark wheat
Jeff: beer kind of vibe you know something along those lines yeah and not.
Greg: Exactly not a hood wouldn't be enough to probably be over sweet without yeah
Greg: more sharper bitterness yeah cause there's not a lot of bitterness here at all
Greg: at least not a lot of apparent bitterness mmhmm,
Greg: Pretty tasty, though.
Shannon: It is. And I'm tasting like a banana nut bread.
Greg: Yes. Good call.
Shannon: Heavy on the nuts.
Greg: Yeah. Very heavy on the nuts.
Jeff: That's what she said.
Greg: I don't have my...
Shannon: Too late.
Greg: Too late.
Shannon: Missed opportunities.
Greg: But it is a reminder to bringing them up.
Jeff: So turn your volume back up so you can.
Greg: Hold on for what?
Shannon: Hold on for what?
Jeff: So, sorry everyone, there was a weird pause right there when I was trying to
Jeff: bring up Greg's audio sound.
Jeff: I was trying to change menus and I hit the pause button. We're back.
Greg: Ah. Ah. Ah. Jeff, you disappoint me.
Jeff: I know. You'd think after 20 years I'd get the hang of this shit.
Shannon: I would think.
Greg: But, oh well.
Shannon: This is, I like this. I mean, I don't know if I'd want to drink it all the time.
Jeff: That's a good six-pack.
Greg: It'd be a nice thing to have in the fridge.
Shannon: Nice. Yeah.
Greg: Put in the back and, you know, occasional going out.
Shannon: I think it's definitely something we need to throw in the new fridge.
Jeff: In the new fridge.
Shannon: In the new fridge. In the garage.
Jeff: So what did you bring up, Greg? Because I got a few things, too.
Greg: Well, I did want to mention that, yeah, we don't. The post-show from last episode hasn't been posted.
Jeff: I see that. It didn't get sent from a phonic up to the site.
Jeff: By the time I went to look at it, it wasn't in a phonic anymore.
Jeff: So now it's like I got to pull it off this card and do the whole thing again.
Jeff: I can do that when I do this show. So you'll get a special double post show posted.
Jeff: But I'm like, we're going to be recording here in a couple of days. I'll just do that.
Jeff: I'll just do the easy thing. But I still have it on this memory card.
Greg: So what is what are the best time travel movies.
Shannon: Time travel time travel I'm not sure I can name too.
Jeff: Many of them.
Shannon: Back to the future I mean.
Greg: It's a pretty good good.
Shannon: Movie yeah I think back to the future up there.
Greg: But I don't think it's my I.
Shannon: Don't think it's the best time travel no is it a time travel movie it's I'm
Shannon: trying to think of the name of it but the where he's like stuck in the dimension,
Shannon: Stuck in a dimension In between dimensions Buckaroo Banzai across the 8th dimension Cube No Stuck.
Greg: In between dimensions.
Shannon: Yes.
Greg: Okay, keep going. Keep describing.
Shannon: I'm trying to think of who it is that's in the movie.
Greg: Oh, Jurassic Park.
Shannon: No.
Jeff: There's that time travel. I can't think of it right now.
Greg: It's not the Matrix, is it?
Shannon: No, no.
Jeff: I think, I'm wondering if the one I'm trying to remember is the one you're going to mention.
Jeff: If I can. It's kind of one that repeats over, like the sequence repeats over and over again.
Greg: That's not Groundhog Day. That is, what is that? uh the day after no no wasn't bruce.
Jeff: Willis in it or something.
Greg: Oh that you're the bruce willis that's a good pull because that is the movie i'm thinking of.
Jeff: Which one is that.
Greg: But are you thinking of the tom cruise one no.
Jeff: I'm thinking of the bruce willis one i thought.
Greg: 12 monkeys oh.
Jeff: No no i'm thinking of 12 monkeys i.
Greg: Forgot that is to me my favorite time travel i think
Greg: it's also the one that may that is it's the best i think
Greg: it's the one that makes the most sense it's the one that uh everything seems
Greg: well thought out interstellar interstellar okay that's the one there is there's
Greg: arguably time travel in that movie i would not yeah there is time travel i guess
Greg: because he doesn't it doesn't.
Shannon: I mean i haven't watched it's time dilation.
Greg: No but he actually sends a message back in time to his right.
Shannon: Oh does he yeah yeah yeah.
Greg: When he gets and then he's.
Shannon: Like trying to I remember him in the bookcase or.
Greg: Whatever I probably watched it in 2014 when it came out it turns into a big
Greg: bookcase because that's what's inside black holes apparently I.
Jeff: Missed that deeper meaning of it.
Shannon: Oh it's Leonardo DiCaprio.
Jeff: The uh isn't it your favorite movie your favorite time travel movie isn't all
Jeff: in all movies time travel movies.
Greg: Because you travel forward. I'm being time travel as a plot device.
Jeff: Oh, okay.
Greg: Gotcha.
Jeff: I forgot that 12 Monkeys was time travel.
Greg: I mean, it very much is.
Jeff: Oh, Looper was one I was thinking of.
Greg: Yeah, Looper, I didn't like. A friend of mine said Primer.
Greg: I think Primer is way too confusing and not a very good movie.
Greg: I get that it's like they really go into, you know, nerdy. It's very nerdy,
Greg: but it's not that good a movie.
Greg: Another movie that I think is underrated time travel wise, Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.
Shannon: Oh.
Greg: I mean, I think it does still hold up.
Greg: And it's kind of funnier than it has any right to be because it's less broad
Greg: than you might think. Like, it's kind of nailing its humor as opposed to being
Greg: so, you know, big and broad.
Greg: Whereas Back to the Future is an excellent just, you know, four-quadrant movie.
Greg: It's got all the parts to it, so it's a really great adventure movie.
Greg: But as, like, a time travel movie, I think it's...
Greg: There's, there's questions I have, there's questions I have,
Greg: which remind me, so, um, I was recently down to visit my dad and,
Greg: uh, we watched, he watched a couple of movies, but one of the movies he said
Greg: that he wanted to check it because he had to see him or he had,
Greg: he doesn't remember was the matrix.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: And we got through the last night I was there we got through like the first
Greg: act before he kind of fell asleep I knew he was going to fall asleep it was late,
Greg: but the first act still holds up totally
Greg: I think the Matrix is a really really well done movie oh yeah I don't think
Greg: that any of the sequels are worth any time but I think the original one is really
Greg: really held up there is a story point that I realized does not make a lot of
Greg: sense if you really think about it.
Greg: I just noticed it because,
Greg: it's structured very well. It has all the points you want in a well-structured thing.
Greg: The characters have arcs. Things are well done.
Greg: The thing is that the impetus for Morpheus and Trinity are both things that
Greg: they say the oracle told them And they are, at least Morpheus himself is quite,
Greg: the first thing he tells Neo is like, you know, the oracle told me that I'd
Greg: find the one and it's you.
Greg: When Neo sees the oracle, she tells him you're not the one.
Greg: And when Neo comes out, the first thing Morpheus says to him is,
Greg: what you heard was for you and you alone. And it's like, wait a minute.
Greg: You've been yelling about how the oracle told you're going to find the one a
Greg: bunch but for everybody else no don't say anything it's like it was it felt very artificial.
Jeff: Unless that's just what people need to hear the moment that they leave the Oracle.
Greg: I mean, clearly that was what the Oracle had in mind.
Greg: But that he would be so upfront constantly and telling everybody about what the Oracle told him.
Greg: And then telling Neo not to tell him what the Oracle told him.
Jeff: I mean, there could have been an extra few lines that got cut because it was
Jeff: too much exposition. You know, where it could have explained.
Greg: I don't know. There's a lot of exposition in that movie. There has to be.
Jeff: Yeah. But I mean, it could have been like, he could have said something like,
Jeff: I wasn't ready to hear what I heard at the first instant either.
Greg: Yeah yeah but but like i think that i i
Greg: would have been more satisfied if if he had said the
Greg: oracle said it wasn't it wasn't me and
Greg: there would have been either some doubt in morpheus's mind
Greg: or some lines about how like
Greg: some something to justify that very artificial like story point it gets run
Greg: over real quick because the movie is very fast and all of a sudden you know
Greg: cypher is betraying them and morpheus captured etc but i just noticed that,
Greg: what are we doing now oh okay so we're bringing up.
Jeff: First beer we've ever had on a podcast together.
Shannon: Oh is that.
Greg: I think it's it's one of the first we don't know whether it was the first one the second one.
Jeff: Yeah, it was, I think it was the first one, but the second one they don't make
Jeff: anymore that we, our very first episode for people who don't remember fondly
Jeff: 20 years ago, um, decided to, you know, give this podcasting thing a try.
Jeff: Uh, I had discovered podcasting about three months earlier and was beer geek.
Jeff: So I started listening to your podcast and felt that there was a need in the, uh, the genre.
Jeff: There was a gap in the genre. it's britney bitch they were either more relevant
Jeff: they were either like juvenile yuck yuck beer drinking podcasts or there.
Greg: Was one that i didn't like where they would burp on um.
Jeff: Well there was one who had their hearts were in the right place most of the
Jeff: time where they talked about the beers educating people about styles name was
Jeff: screw tops um two problems with screw tops their,
Jeff: kitsch was to burp on Mike and they just didn't know what they were talking about.
Jeff: I remember yelling at the radio
Jeff: because they were just 100% wrong in describing what a milk stout was.
Jeff: So, I can't remember what they said about a milk stout. I just know that they,
Jeff: didn't know that it was lactose dissolved in the beer. You know, that kind of thing.
Greg: Funny, because as we mentioned, we didn't know much about beer either,
Greg: but we knew a little bit more, and you knew a little bit more.
Greg: I was pretty much a novice and basically getting online information directly from you.
Jeff: Yep. So bought some microphones and an old RadioShack soundboard off of eBay
Jeff: or either eBay or Craigslist. I can't remember. I think it was eBay.
Jeff: And we did the show. It was going to be a dry run. We weren't going to post
Jeff: it. We're like, that didn't suck. Let's go ahead and post it.
Greg: We printed out things ahead of time. So we had a outline.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: I know that you went through and edited it and took out all the ums and uhs and stuff like that.
Jeff: Oh, I certainly had to for that first one.
Jeff: And, yeah, we put it up. And the first two beers, just because what we had on
Jeff: hand and wasn't really planned to be the first show, we had two Imperial IPAs.
Jeff: We did Dogfish Head 90 Minute, which is this beer, and Stout's Imperial IPA,
Jeff: which rest in peace Stout's. They haven't made in about five years now, I think.
Greg: And then we just kept doing it.
Jeff: Too dumb to stop sometimes.
Greg: All right. So 90 minute.
Greg: 9% alcohol by volume.
Shannon: It is.
Greg: Yes. So this is their 60-minute plus.
Greg: The 60-minute is their sort of flagship IPA, and this is 90-minute.
Greg: Based on, as I remember, how long the hops are in.
Jeff: Yeah, they decided, they came up with this novel approach of continuous hopping.
Jeff: Typically, when you brew a
Jeff: hoppy beer like an IPA, when it starts to boil, you add most of the hops.
Jeff: With about 15 minutes to go, you add some of the hops. And with zero minutes
Jeff: to go, you add some more hops.
Jeff: Their idea was to build a machine based upon an electric football vibrating
Jeff: game where the hops would just slowly trickle in the entire boil.
Jeff: So a few hop cones every few seconds would fall into the beer.
Jeff: So it was continuously hopped for 60 minutes for their IPA or 90 minutes for their double IPA.
Jeff: Or now they have a 30-minute session IPA.
Jeff: And then they have the 120 minutes.
Shannon: Oh, the triple.
Jeff: It's a different beast. It was more of an experiment in what can they make the yeast do.
Jeff: So it's like 18% ABV.
Shannon: What?
Jeff: And the hops really don't come across as hoppy.
Jeff: And then there's also the rare, occasionally seen 75-minute,
Jeff: otherwise known as Johnny Cask.
Greg: So. Johnny Cask.
Greg: It smells boozy. I'm even getting a little bit of a fusel smell off of it.
Jeff: I'm not getting fused.
Shannon: Oh, yeah, okay.
Jeff: I am getting, I got a kind of great orangey hop aroma at first,
Jeff: and now the malts are coming through a little bit more.
Jeff: And there's the booziness.
Shannon: Boozy, but there's a staleness to it.
Greg: Yes, there is. It kind of tastes like nothing.
Shannon: I haven't even tasted it. I smell a staleness.
Greg: There's a lot of cardboard in here.
Shannon: I checked. It's a sell-by date, and it's in the fall sometime.
Jeff: Yeah, October.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: I would expect a big, heavy malt backbone here, and I'm not getting it.
Greg: I'm getting very empty notes and, uh, yeah, I don't like this.
Shannon: I don't know if it's a, it's just bad.
Jeff: No, you're not wrong. I mean, it's not, it is what it is.
Jeff: And, you know, there's things in here, which I'll talk about in a second,
Jeff: but no, you, I'm not surprised.
Greg: This, this, this tastes wrong though. This doesn't have a malt backbone at all.
Greg: I remember it being a malt backbone with a cloyingness, to it because of its highness.
Greg: And this tastes off. Like, this has gone real bad.
Shannon: Yeah, it just tastes...
Greg: I do not think this is what it was intended.
Shannon: No, it's very...
Greg: I don't feel this is worth it.
Shannon: It's not even bitter. I don't even know how to describe it. Now it's a shame, so we have...
Jeff: It tastes like what I think it's supposed to taste like to me.
Shannon: Does it?
Jeff: Yeah, absolutely. I don't think it tastes great.
Shannon: I don't know what it's supposed to taste like.
Jeff: I think it has its, you know, things to talk about.
Jeff: like it's quite bitter there is a sweet maltiness in there but the alcohol and
Jeff: the bitterness rains on it um the bitterness just lingers in the back of your tongue like all day.
Greg: In their description they say this with rich pine and fruity citrus hop aromas
Greg: and a strong malt backbone 90 minute IPA created pungent,
Greg: unapologetic flavor that led Esquire to call perhaps the best IPA in America,
Greg: Which year did they say that?
Greg: But still, this tastes like nothing to me.
Shannon: Yeah, it doesn't.
Jeff: I've had this not too long ago. This doesn't taste wrong to me.
Jeff: This tastes like the beer.
Shannon: Really? It just sucks.
Jeff: I'm not saying none of you are wrong. I mean, I'm not going to go as far as
Jeff: sucks, but I don't think this beer's off. I think this is the beer.
Greg: I don't buy it. The flavors they put in, brandy, fruitcake, raisiny,
Greg: citrusy, I get none of that.
Jeff: I never got any of that. Marketing speak. Go on Beer Advocate.
Greg: Fine.
Jeff: Let's go back to the old days. Let's see what people are saying on Beer Advocate.
Shannon: I'm sipping some more so I can see if I can change my mind.
Jeff: You don't have to change your mind.
Shannon: I'm just wondering if once I get used to...
Greg: A 90-minute on Beer Advocate is a 95 world class.
Shannon: That's a travesty.
Greg: Most recent? Uh...
Greg: 5, 4.37, 3.92, 4.5, 4.5.
Greg: Okay, the first one that has any text here was semi-sour, semi-sweet,
Greg: semi-rotten, semi-refreshing.
Shannon: There's no semi-sour in this whatsoever.
Jeff: I think the reviews on Beer Advocate have changed a little bit since we last looked a decade ago.
Greg: March 4th, 2025, it's whizzly balanced.
Shannon: What?
Jeff: What the fuck? What?
Shannon: It's got a metallic...
Greg: Copper color, medium-sized off-white head. The aroma of pine,
Greg: grapefruit, and malt. Taste follows the aroma. Strong coffee bitterness,
Greg: but it's very easy to drink. Great IPA.
Shannon: I don't even taste the pine.
Greg: I don't buy it. Overall, quite sweet, but very intense flavors and bitterness.
Greg: This doesn't taste sweet at all.
Shannon: There's nothing sweet about it. This is wrong. It tastes like I put a penny in my mouth.
Greg: Yeah, this is not the beer.
Shannon: And sucked on it for a little bit.
Greg: This is not the beer. This is a mistake.
Jeff: We can try a second bottle if you want.
Greg: You have a second bottle?
Shannon: Yeah, we have a six pack.
Greg: Let's try a second bottle.
Jeff: Let's see if there's...
Greg: Yeah. All right. I mean, because this is not right.
Jeff: All right. So Greg is going to drain pour this one.
Shannon: And so I'll share.
Shannon: I don't believe that it's good.
Jeff: We should just stitch in what we said back in 2005 here and just paste it in.
Greg: I think this was the winner, if I remember correctly.
Jeff: I think the Stouts was probably past its prime. I probably pulled it.
Jeff: I bought a case of that stuff and aged it, which you don't do with double IPAs.
Jeff: But that one had turned into a barley wine with age. I don't think it was quite
Jeff: barley wine when we did the show, but it was probably past its prime.
Greg: Not great but it is i think this one's a little better but also lacking.
Jeff: It's the same beard just cold.
Shannon: Well the other one's only out for like 10 minutes 20 minutes maybe i suppose,
Shannon: but no i think that it being colder definitely helped yeah.
Greg: I I am...
Greg: This is not like what I remember at all. Because I remember the booziness,
Greg: I remember it being particularly cloying at times because of its booziness.
Greg: And because of the sweetness that was added to it. But I don't taste any of that.
Jeff: I don't know.
Shannon: I'm picking up on the sweetness now.
Greg: Right. I think this is a little bit better, but it's still not great.
Greg: Like, I think this batch is bad. I think they made it bad, bad.
Jeff: I think you have too high expectations for 90 minutes.
Shannon: Maybe.
Greg: Maybe, but I still, I mean, I feel like,
Greg: well, I mean, we've tried two of them, and they're both that solid.
Greg: And I don't taste any, like, particularly off flavors that would make me think
Greg: that there is a spoilage or something.
Shannon: No.
Jeff: I mean, for me, they've stuck with the legacy hop profile, which isn't as delicious
Jeff: as what we're used to these days.
Greg: No, no, no, no, no. No, I feel like we would have thought this was sucky back then, too.
Jeff: I don't think so. We were drinking things like Ruination and Arrogant Bastard.
Greg: You were drinking things like Arrogant Bastard. I was only doing...
Shannon: I was drinking McAultras.
Jeff: The universe of what hops can give you were very, very different in 2005.
Greg: No, but I just remember more malt here. I distinctly remember considerably more malt here.
Greg: Maybe they cut back on their malt because of tariffs.
Jeff: Could have easily been reformulated over the years for sure.
Jeff: I'm surprised that they're sticking with the pine because I can't imagine that
Jeff: that's what people want these days.
Shannon: I know I don't, But I do have to say that this one does taste better,
Shannon: and I don't know if it's because it's just a better bottle or if it's because it's colder.
Shannon: It is definitely much colder than the one that we drank first.
Greg: What's his name, Sam?
Jeff: Sam Calagione.
Greg: Sam Calagione, yeah.
Jeff: I think it's the cold.
Greg: If I were Sam.
Shannon: It probably is.
Greg: If I were Sam, I'd be saying...
Greg: It just feels like, come on, that's not.
Shannon: Unless you want that. I just don't do that. Oh, you did? Yeah, it's not worth the...
Jeff: I drank my first sample.
Greg: And as far as I'm concerned... Execute order 66.
Shannon: Yeah. Yeah. I know what grade that one's getting.
Greg: Let that one go.
Jeff: Didn't hold up.
Shannon: Goodbye, farewell.
Greg: Now, when do you want to do, because I brought, when I was recently in Maryland,
Greg: I found green chartreuse for sale.
Shannon: Let's do that in the post show.
Greg: Okay.
Jeff: Post show or at the end, either one. All right. So the original,
Jeff: my original plan was like, let's get all beers that were available on the shelf in 2005.
Jeff: So I have beers in the fridge like Two-Hearted Ale, Le Fin Du Monde, Golden Monkey.
Shannon: Golden Monkey was available back in 2005.
Jeff: Yeah, it sure was. It doesn't matter. And there's one other one.
Shannon: Well, I guess it probably was.
Jeff: But Greg made a good point that we just don't want to drink all the old beers.
Shannon: Because it's going to make for a crappy night.
Jeff: So these next three beers are beers that Shannon and I brought back from different trips.
Jeff: so let's start with the trip from our most recent one from seattle we have sacred
Jeff: geometry from holy mountain brewing company love holy i think you need some more.
Shannon: Love holy mountain well these are.
Greg: All different i think that one might have been low.
Shannon: Can we just say again holy mountain is freaking awesome we love holy mountain,
Shannon: Yes, it was.
Greg: Holy mountain.
Jeff: And we walked all the way from like downtown to get there.
Greg: So this guy.
Shannon: It was not a short walk, but it was a beautiful walk.
Greg: Secret geometry.
Shannon: On the Pacific coast.
Greg: A blend of various oak-age mixed fermentation beers after blending is racked
Greg: on top of a large amount of fresh raspberries from Spooner Farms in Puyallup, P-U-Y-A-L-L-U-P.
Shannon: Okay.
Jeff: You got it close enough.
Greg: Puyallup, Washington.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: Then went through a secondary fermentation on the fruit in freshly emptied red wine barrels.
Shannon: Yeah. It's a beautiful.
Greg: Look at the difference in...
Shannon: Beautiful, beautiful color of... There's still a lot left in the bottle.
Jeff: I poured us just kind of a little bit.
Shannon: Pinkish.
Jeff: So it shouldn't have too much.
Shannon: Reddish.
Greg: You done?
Jeff: Yeah, it almost looks like a rosé or something like that.
Shannon: Yeah, rosé.
Jeff: And the aroma is bread and raspberries.
Jeff: Like you think it's like this super saturated fruit, but there's this leather strap in there too.
Jeff: And then at the end, it almost goes as a chocolate for me. Now,
Jeff: like that's just like a nose overload thing.
Jeff: It's not like chocolatey going to be the flavor or nothing. But like when I
Jeff: took a sniff, it was like leather strap, raspberries.
Jeff: Oh, chocolate cherries, you know, something like that.
Shannon: No, I'm not picking up on any chocolate.
Jeff: It was just a fleeting thing. Maybe that won't ever come back.
Shannon: Yeah, I'm definitely picking up on the raspberries.
Greg: Picking up on a little bit of like rabbit poop?
Shannon: Rabbit poop. When did you have rabbit poop? I'm just curious.
Greg: Oh, the other day I made a stir fry and found some at the Giant Eagle's. Rabbit poop, yeah.
Shannon: Really? That's awesome. It's probably full of protein.
Greg: Probably not because i think.
Shannon: Yeah no i i was like as soon as i said that i was like wait no,
Shannon: no but there's.
Greg: A distinct like um barney arty oh yeah.
Shannon: Oh yeah it's funky oh my it's definitely funky,
Shannon: I need to take some antacid.
Jeff: There's a, there's like a cheese.
Greg: That's different from the we had before.
Jeff: There's a Limburger cheese.
Shannon: Doesn't taste like rabbit poop anymore.
Greg: Yes. Yeah. There is, yeah, that barnyard thing comes through in the flavor of it too.
Greg: It feels, dare I say, overbreaded.
Jeff: Horse blanket.
Shannon: Mm-hmm.
Greg: Yeah, there's some rabbit poop in here.
Shannon: I don't think so, but I do think there's some leather in there.
Shannon: Leather that just came off of the saddle of a horse.
Jeff: Sweaty, sweaty.
Shannon: Sweaty, yeah.
Jeff: Right out of the dominatrix's dungeon.
Shannon: It's, I don't know.
Greg: Came through the desert on a raspberry horse.
Jeff: It's definitely very raspberry. It's a lot. It's definitely a lot.
Shannon: It's funky.
Greg: It's funky. It's got the funk. It's got that huge sourness and big berry flavor.
Jeff: Yeah, we were just talking on the more, we were fixating on the more gross parts of the flavor.
Shannon: No, I like it because it's very bold.
Greg: I do think it's bold. I don't know if I like it that much. I'm.
Shannon: I can't drink much of it. My stomach will not allow it.
Shannon: But I like the boldness of it. That funky, bold, like, hey.
Greg: I'm with you in the sense of like.
Shannon: You're going to wake up when you take a sip of this.
Greg: Yes. I'm with you in the sense of.
Shannon: Wow.
Greg: Like, there is the. This is different. But. it's not very tasty.
Shannon: No, it doesn't have a,
Shannon: it doesn't blend well, I guess. Yeah, it almost needs to be cut with something.
Shannon: Yeah. Turn the vine up on. It does.
Shannon: It needs to be cut with something. It needs something to, they need to put one
Shannon: more something in there.
Greg: I just think there's too much bread. I just really think there's too much bread.
Greg: I think that it's over breaded and I think that the brett has gone too far here.
Greg: And what's weird is this is blended. So they wanted it to be like this.
Shannon: Well, that's a good point. I mean, it's aged in an oak barrel,
Shannon: so you're kind of taking your chance.
Jeff: Well, they should have blended it at bottling time, though.
Greg: Yeah.
Shannon: Well, okay. Okay.
Greg: So, yeah, I don't know.
Shannon: Man, I had to smuggle that in my suitcase, too. That was a rough one.
Greg: Is there stuff on the bottom? Is it continuing for renting?
Jeff: I don't know. The bottle's really dark.
Shannon: It is very dark. I mean, we could shine a flashlight in it.
Jeff: It certainly is. There's certainly sediment at the bottom.
Greg: Yeah.
Jeff: So, there's still like that much beer in it, too.
Shannon: Oh, that's tough.
Greg: I, uh, yeah, I gotta say, um.
Shannon: Holy Mountain.
Shannon: I mean, it's not as bad as the last one.
Greg: No, no. But this is clearly what they intended.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: And, I don't know, it kind of tastes like shit.
Jeff: It's a lot.
Shannon: I just think that they needed to put one more thing in there to blend it and
Shannon: make it just kind of. Yeah, a clean beer. Smoother and...
Jeff: Take the pH down a couple of notches, you know?
Shannon: Yes, yes.
Greg: And I could go for a big sour, but when...
Shannon: It's not a Hill Farmstead.
Greg: Yeah.
Jeff: Yeah, it's super tart, super acidic. It's funky Limburger cheese barnyard.
Jeff: It's just too much of... All those things in the right proportions are just heavenly.
Greg: Mm-hmm.
Jeff: This one is...
Shannon: Or is it holy?
Shannon: heavenly it's.
Greg: Holy because it's full of holes.
Shannon: I agree that like you.
Greg: Know uh a uh what is it sydney sydney crawford has a mole and that makes her
Greg: even prettier because it breaks up the symmetry but if you're covered with moles you're less pretty,
Greg: hmm okay.
Shannon: What's next let's go to oh i gotta finish this first i can't i can't because
Shannon: it's gonna hurt my stomach yeah i think this is a tough i hate to do that because
Shannon: it's a holy mountain but i just can't because it's gonna hurt me all.
Jeff: Right so next we're gonna go with this guy from what, 8th State?
Shannon: That's the way.
Jeff: 8th State. So this is one Shannon and I picked up in Greenville, South Carolina.
Shannon: On our last trip?
Jeff: No, a while back.
Shannon: Oh, we weren't even...
Jeff: It was the time before we went to Asheville.
Greg: Another sour.
Shannon: Ugh. Is it? Yeah.
Greg: Oh, boy. 6% mixed fermentation sour staved on oak and cherry wood with raspberry,
Greg: blueberry, blackberry, Tayberry, strawberry, vanilla, and marshmallow.
Shannon: I need antacids.
Greg: Hope the next one, hope this one isn't a sour.
Jeff: Probably is. We'll switch it out.
Shannon: Definitely, I'll switch it out. I can't fake it anymore.
Jeff: All right, this one pours kind of still. Like, there's no apparent bubbles.
Jeff: Very clear. It looks like wine.
Shannon: It does look like wine.
Greg: It looks like sangria. I've got a lot of sediment in mine.
Shannon: Oh. Yeah, you do.
Jeff: You weren't even close to the bottom of the bottle. There's still this much left.
Greg: Yeah, mine is not nearly as clear as yours.
Jeff: Let's blend.
Greg: Yeah.
Jeff: Let's blend, blend.
Greg: Blend-y blend.
Shannon: But it does look like sangria, doesn't it?
Greg: It has, yes, for sure.
Shannon: Mm-hmm.
Greg: Or a whiny fruit punch.
Greg: And... we have done the blendy blend, so now we all have the same.
Jeff: Uniformity across our glasses. The smell on this one...
Shannon: Oh!
Jeff: Smells like beautiful cherries. It doesn't smell like ridiculous tart like the last one.
Jeff: No, it just smells like a really soft cherry. There's a big fruit thing going
Jeff: on, kind of sweet, almost from, with the combination of the view,
Jeff: it smells more syrupy to me, like...
Shannon: Like a cherry syrup.
Jeff: Probably cause how still everything looks.
Greg: But there's also a wordiness there. Are you getting that wort in the background?
Jeff: There's the marshmallows, too, so I'm smelling kind of like a milkshake-y thing.
Shannon: Oh, that's it.
Greg: It just smells like, you know, you go into a brewery and the smell of just the malted barley.
Greg: All those fruits are there.
Shannon: Oh, that's beautiful.
Jeff: Yeah, it comes across kind of like...
Greg: Mmm, mmm.
Shannon: That's lovely.
Jeff: The marshmallow definitely takes it away from...
Greg: Being too sour.
Shannon: Yeah.
Jeff: Yeah, it takes away from being sour.
Shannon: It gives it a smoothness.
Jeff: There's so much fruit in this, and the marshmallow, it kind of...
Jeff: Isn't obvious that it's a beer, you know?
Shannon: No. I wouldn't know that it was a beer if I was blindfolded.
Greg: Carbonation is really extremely low.
Shannon: It is. I would swear it was a wine.
Jeff: Like a fortified wine or something like that? Or mead or cider or something like that?
Shannon: Oh, yeah, a mead. A mead. That's actually what I would say it was.
Greg: Well, Marshmallow is doing a lot of work here, and it's doing a good job.
Greg: It's mellowing out everything.
Shannon: They did a great job blending this.
Greg: Yeah.
Shannon: And making it not, it's not tart at all. Not even a little bit.
Jeff: I mean, we've had some tremendous beers from 8th State. The ones we brought
Jeff: back, the ones we had when we were there.
Jeff: They do a lot of field stuff. Like I remember having a carrot beer,
Jeff: which was like almost like carrot cake kind of, but not the spiciness,
Jeff: just more of like saturation of carrots.
Greg: And so this was not in barrels this was staved so that's one thing so the wood is,
Greg: not a primary expression so much as kind of secondary there's also vanilla as I said in here oh.
Shannon: Yeah definitely vanilla yeah,
Shannon: That makes sense.
Greg: I dig it. I dig this a lot. I think this is really interesting and well done.
Greg: I think particularly that marshmallow addition is really smart.
Greg: Because there's so many berries in there. Raspberry, blueberry,
Greg: blackberry, tayberry, strawberry. They're all going to drag you in different
Greg: directions. I don't even know what tayberry tastes like.
Greg: And marshmallow is kind of just surrounding it all and just bringing it and
Greg: pulling it all together as sort of a more just, it just kind of tastes like a bunch of berries.
Shannon: There are a lot of different flavors of berries in there, not just cherry.
Jeff: Yeah, it's a tasty drink. You feel great with ice cream.
Shannon: I mean, it's kind of like a sangria, although not.
Greg: Yeah, yeah.
Shannon: Sangria is not nearly as good as this, but it has that same type of a flavor
Shannon: profile as sangria does.
Greg: I agree. I think it was sangria with a little bit more like vanilla in it.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: And you get a kind of approximation of what this beer tastes like.
Greg: And a sangria is not going to be 6%.
Greg: So this is going to save your sobriety a lot more than a sangria will.
Jeff: Sangria is still high even with all the other stuff added?
Greg: I'm pretty sure, yeah. I'm pretty sure it's...
Shannon: That's got a lot of sugar in it.
Greg: Maybe like 12% or so. Maybe.
Jeff: I see. I thought the wine would start out at like 9 or 10 and then it would come down from there.
Greg: I mean who knows let's see it's sangria I think.
Shannon: It's about 7 6.5.
Greg: Or 7% I think you're.
Shannon: Right Jeff I think it's lower.
Greg: Usually have between 5% and 15%.
Shannon: That's a huge scale okay.
Greg: EU losses bottles from Spain are limited by law to less than 12% alcohol by
Greg: volume but I think there's just a,
Greg: It's a rough guideline between 5% and 15%. That's a lot.
Greg: And, okay, another senior sangria says, typical sangria ranges from 7% to 10% alcohol.
Greg: But it could be higher or lower.
Jeff: Okay.
Greg: Senior sangria.
Shannon: So, basically, we really have no idea.
Jeff: See, I thought, I don't even know what sangria is. Sounds like that's a wine
Jeff: you get from Spain. I thought it was like a punch that you make.
Shannon: Well.
Greg: No, I believe it is. but it's like you can make a they're purchasable like pre-mixes
Greg: yeah well like not pre-mixes but like you know this is a I mean I've.
Shannon: Bought bottles of sangria before.
Greg: This winery makes their own sangria which is a mix of you know it's a blend of wine and fruit yeah,
Greg: yeah I don't know,
Greg: yeah I'm seeing things between 10-11 here's one that's 6.5 so it's there's there's
Greg: a lot of variety it seems this is on the low end of your sangria varieties.
Jeff: So greg you might remember how when we came back from the finger lakes we signed
Jeff: up for that subscription for that brewery ardennes beer the belgian beer brewery
Jeff: we liked up there quite a bit got an email yesterday they have an annual trip to belgium well.
Shannon: They i don't think it's to belgium every year i.
Jeff: Think it's to it was a different location but usually it's belgium it's their
Jeff: beer venture and uh i think we're
Jeff: gonna go the price is pretty good i thought we oh we're yeah we're we.
Shannon: Already paid the deposit.
Jeff: We didn't pay the deposit you.
Shannon: Didn't pay the deposit today.
Jeff: No i'm still trying to get answers on the membership thing,
Jeff: We're going to go.
Shannon: Okay. I've already told everybody we're going.
Jeff: Then we're going. We're going. But it, um, the price seems great.
Jeff: It's all inclusive, except for like, I guess beers you want to,
Jeff: you know, drink or buy, you know, bring home or whatnot.
Jeff: Um, get to go to Cantillon and West Folletteran.
Jeff: And it's, um, eight days. And we, um, fly out of Montreal. So we get to go to due to seal also.
Jeff: And, uh, yeah, it seems pretty cool and it's it's yeah it's you know i've been
Jeff: wanting to go to belgium past 20 years so this is on your bucket list for travels yeah and.
Shannon: Uh we have a day we could go to amsterdam is included yes everything airfare
Shannon: the hotel breakfast some of the meals and.
Jeff: You know breakfast is included yeah yeah uh
Jeff: it's twenty nine hundred dollars for the
Jeff: members now we only currently have one chalice club subscription so that means
Jeff: for the other person it would be 250 more um but we could get another chalice
Jeff: club subscription which is about
Jeff: four hundred and twenty dollars a year and then like so we get the we.
Shannon: Get the beer.
Jeff: Get the beer or
Jeff: you know we pay for the if you
Jeff: live close to the brewery there's a mug club type thing which is two hundred
Jeff: dollars we can do that and save 50 bucks but you would never you'd never get
Jeff: to take advantage of the perk so we'd just be saving the 50 bucks so it's like
Jeff: save the 50 bucks or pay an extra hundred and sixty dollars and get.
Shannon: A lot of beer.
Jeff: Beer for like half price cool and they have great.
Shannon: Beer so that's.
Jeff: Yeah so that's cool um.
Shannon: So that's what we're trying to figure out. But yeah, no, in January. Yeah.
Jeff: It opens up for non-members on June 11th for anyone who wants to come along too.
Jeff: Or you can become a chalice club member at Brewery Arden.
Shannon: Brewery Arden.
Jeff: So that's cool. And that means we, yeah, I don't know.
Shannon: We get to spend a day in Amsterdam too.
Jeff: Really?
Shannon: If we want to, that one day where we can tour the city that we're in or we can
Shannon: take a bus over to Amsterdam and spend a day. I want to go to Amsterdam.
Greg: Yeah.
Shannon: No.
Greg: Remember when we started the show, that was like, you could go to Amsterdam
Greg: and smoke all the weed you wanted.
Greg: And now it's like, well, you can smoke all the weed you want anywhere.
Jeff: Yeah.
Greg: Pretty much anywhere.
Jeff: So now you just look at Amsterdam for the hookers.
Greg: Yeah.
Shannon: All right, then I don't want to go to Amsterdam. I want to go to Amsterdam because
Shannon: I want to go to Amsterdam.
Greg: Not for a book course. The bookers are only in the red light district.
Shannon: Jeez.
Jeff: So we're still going to do this one because it's Oxbow. And Oxbow is...
Shannon: Oxbow.
Jeff: A transcendental brewery, so.
Greg: Okay, so let's talk about the Oxbow for a second.
Shannon: Oxbow's in Portland, Maine.
Greg: Amoreau de Malta was the name of the beer. This is a barrel-aged dark farmhouse.
Greg: 9.5%. It is a, oh, this will actually be, this will go well into the chartreuse
Greg: and stuff because this is a brood with an aged with 25 natural herbs and spices.
Shannon: Oh, really?
Greg: Mm-hmm.
Shannon: Hmm.
Greg: Which I think might be why they
Greg: say Amaro because Amaro is a fortified spirit that has a lot of spices.
Shannon: Oh, I did not know that.
Greg: Oof.
Shannon: Do you have the, the more you know?
Greg: I don't know.
Shannon: Oh, man.
Greg: I'm sorry. I have something close to it. Let's see if I can get this close to it. Um...
Shannon: I don't think that's it.
Jeff: That's good enough.
Jeff: Just go with that one. I like that one. That works. So putting words to this
Jeff: aroma is going to be a chore.
Shannon: Oh, wow.
Jeff: It smells like...
Shannon: Everything.
Jeff: Franca, you know, Franette Bronkers.
Greg: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: Something along those lines.
Greg: It's got that, it's got a lot of anise.
Shannon: Oh, it does have anise.
Greg: Anise and fennel.
Shannon: Clove little bit of it's a light,
Shannon: it's not heavy on the clove it's very light on the clove.
Greg: I agree with you I think there's a couple where I think there's probably allspice in there too it smells.
Shannon: Way better than it tastes oh really dang it man is it because it's three years old no.
Jeff: I don't think so I don't know it does taste a little flat woody.
Shannon: Ew. Oh, I feel like I just did. Yeah, hello. Like I just chewed on a piece of wood.
Shannon: What? Soggy wood.
Greg: That?
Shannon: Oh. Oh.
Greg: Yeah, that tastes like Amaro.
Shannon: Does it?
Greg: Yeah. I mean, I think it's got more sourness to it than Amaro does,
Greg: and that's kind of weird.
Shannon: It's almost like a, what are those green bottles that we get at the breweries?
Jeff: The Underbergs.
Shannon: Is that what they're called?
Jeff: I think that's what they're called. The little aperitif you do.
Shannon: The little green bottles?
Jeff: Yeah, Underberg, I think is the name of it.
Shannon: That's what it's reminding me of.
Greg: Yeah, I mean, those are typically, I mean, the idea is that bitterness makes
Greg: your stomach, like, push stuff out so you don't get, like, stomach aches.
Shannon: Is that what it's for?
Greg: Yeah. That's, like, what's, that's what these, like, Amaro and Campari and stuff
Greg: were originally designed for.
Shannon: I need them the more you know again.
Jeff: I like turtles.
Shannon: I'm learning so much tonight.
Shannon: I don't think that was it, either.
Shannon: who.
Jeff: Says that things don't get better with age oh hi mark craft beer radio 20 years on.
Shannon: It did get better with age look at me yeah i'm on the show it did get better yes it's fucking crazy.
Jeff: Greg what else have like 20 fucking years.
Shannon: I mean you guys might actually get an emmy next year that's right yeah.
Greg: We've we're we're hoping to get nominated um by the committee.
Shannon: Yes we're.
Greg: Not we're not sending in anything but um you know.
Shannon: I'm pretty sure you're gonna get it at me i'm sure too yeah i'm confident there's not that many.
Jeff: Podcasts out there.
Shannon: Yeah no no and i mean.
Greg: You know who's heard of like who's this guy conan o'brien.
Shannon: Yeah conan o'brien yeah Oh, Breen.
Jeff: That's the nice thing about being like the oldest. You just have to be fucking stubborn.
Greg: Yes.
Jeff: And stupid. And no one can take that away from you.
Greg: I mean, we're going to keep going until... It's over 9,000!
Shannon: Episodes. Mm-hmm.
Jeff: Oh, we're not on pace to have the most episodes.
Shannon: Once every two months.
Jeff: The Beerus have, like, hardly taken a break in all their time.
Jeff: I think they're past us in episodes, but...
Greg: That's fine. I don't think this is that bad. I think that I mean like because
Greg: I'm I'm used to maybe the Amaru it's.
Jeff: Better that first sip was jolting though.
Greg: Flavor. But this is like a Amara. But I don't know what the sourness is all
Greg: about. But I think maybe they just needed that to kind of tone it down.
Shannon: I don't taste the sourness. I taste bitterness. And I swear it tastes like that underberg.
Jeff: Yeah. It's not as boozy. Underberg's super boozy, right? It's like 40% ABV or something like that.
Greg: Is it? Oh yeah, for sure.
Shannon: Holy shit. It's a good thing we only do that when we have the camper parked
Shannon: in the parking lot of the brewery.
Greg: So So, while we're considering whether to pull another beer or not,
Greg: I think you probably should.
Jeff: Yeah.
Shannon: Sure.
Jeff: We also did it. We also got it on the, remember, we did it in the airport on
Jeff: the way back to, from Seattle.
Shannon: Seattle. Yeah, we did.
Jeff: We parked, we went to a brewery, but there was no parking nearby and it was
Jeff: a Friday night or something.
Jeff: So, we parked at the grocery store and in order to be a customer,
Jeff: we went inside and bought something from the convenience rack.
Jeff: She bought some gum or something and like, there was underbergs right there.
Jeff: I'm like, I said, I bought like a four pack or six pack of Underberg.
Shannon: And we kept them.
Jeff: And then like on the rental car return shuttle bus, we...
Shannon: Downed them.
Jeff: Everyone's watching us while we're...
Shannon: We are.
Jeff: And I think we drank them.
Jeff: The ceremonial way that you drink Underberg is you take the cap off,
Jeff: you hold it in your teeth, and you just turn your head back.
Shannon: Yeah.
Jeff: Did we do that on the bus?
Shannon: Yes, we did do that on the shuttle bus. Everybody was looking at us like we were crazy.
Shannon: and we didn't care. It was fine. I kind of did this.
Greg: I kind of did the fennel and stuff. I kind of enjoy it.
Jeff: I'm getting used, more used to it.
Shannon: Yeah.
Jeff: That first sip was such a jolt though. It tasted like, it tasted like a piece of wood.
Shannon: It did. I mean, I can drink it now that I think it's...
Greg: I'm getting all the different like spices and stuff.
Jeff: Now it tastes like, like spiced unsweet tea.
Greg: Mm-hmm.
Shannon: No.
Jeff: I said unsweet tea, but like herbed and spiced unsweet tea.
Greg: Yeah I think it's one of those things where like well I could take Earl Grey
Greg: yeah a lot like Campari I think you know you get used to it and you start to
Greg: then taste the dimensions in it um oh you gotta I.
Shannon: Have to I.
Greg: Have to.
Shannon: I have to.
Greg: Potty we can pause you guys.
Shannon: Can keep on.
Greg: No I want to pause because I have a question that for the group okay so we're
Greg: back so two things I wanted to talk about um,
Greg: first of all I've been holding my knife wrong the entire time I've been cooking,
Greg: holding my knife frog, and I learned, um,
Greg: I guess I learned this probably somewhere around the beginning of the year,
Greg: that you don't hold your knife like this.
Greg: And this is what I have as my knife. It's kind of like a baseball bat or something like that.
Jeff: You're holding it full on on the grip, where that would logically be how you
Jeff: hold a knife. That's what all your intuition would say.
Greg: All your intuition says that, but it's kind of unwieldy. And so I was like,
Greg: you know, I was wondering why I was getting good in high school.
Shannon: Hold it like this.
Greg: This is where you hold it. You pinch above the handle,
Greg: and that's where pretty much all of your control is the handle is really just
Greg: there for stability and it gives you so much more dexterity with the knife it's so much easier to use,
Greg: that i'm just i'm just shocked at how i never knew that and when i i.
Jeff: Hold like that.
Greg: Yeah and when i got around to using it that way it's just oh it's just that
Greg: is no no no don't put your finger on top you pinch around i.
Shannon: Know but i i'm just telling you that a lot of times that i do do that but i do.
Jeff: No one would figure that out until a chef told you to do it.
Shannon: I i i do hold it like above the yeah brown has a good reason why not to put
Shannon: your finger on top what is it.
Greg: Doesn't give.
Jeff: You stability or control.
Shannon: See for me it gives me more stability.
Greg: It helps you push.
Jeff: Harder on the dull knife.
Shannon: No, it keeps...
Jeff: Pinch. You have more control if you pinch it. Keep a pinch between your fingers.
Shannon: What if you're... I can't do it with my left hand.
Greg: If you need to put more pressure on the... Then probably you need a sharper knife.
Shannon: Well, I don't need pressure, but I use it as a guide. My pointer finger as a guide.
Greg: I see that often, and I do think that you're more likely to cut yourself doing that.
Shannon: I haven't cut myself with a knife in a long time, but I don't cook that much
Shannon: because Jeff likes to cook.
Greg: I think there is the fact that if you cook, you're going to cut yourself.
Greg: That's just, you know, if you get into cooking.
Shannon: It's going to happen. but i do feel like.
Greg: It's amazing how much that little tweak has improved my knife skills tremendously that's.
Jeff: Interesting i you know even it's funny when you hold a little paring knife that
Jeff: way right because it's like most of the blade.
Greg: Yeah okay so oh wait my second thing i thought i was doing um a word puzzle
Greg: i think it was spelling bee and what.
Jeff: Is this uh dark world,
Jeff: From Magnanimous Brewing Company in Tampa, Florida. Let me look.
Greg: This up since we have this. Dark World.
Shannon: I didn't mean to interrupt you. I thought I missed that.
Jeff: Barrel-aged Imperial Stout with vanilla.
Greg: I feel like we've had this before, right?
Jeff: Did anybody give me any or am I just guessing? We had Death Mountain or something
Jeff: like that. Very similar but different.
Greg: So this is a double Imperial Stout.
Shannon: Double what?
Greg: Add.
Jeff: It is a barrel-aged Imperial Stout with vanilla cacao nibs added.
Shannon: Ooh.
Greg: Ooh, smells very nice.
Shannon: I think I picked this out.
Greg: It's a Pritchard Tennessee whiskey barrel and a Willett bourbon barrel. Aged a year. 12%.
Jeff: Wow. And this thing's been in our possession for probably two years.
Shannon: Probably. We didn't go last time we were there.
Greg: So I was playing a Spelling Bee game, I think, and Spelling Bee's a game on
Greg: the New York Times games. Uh, and one of the, and I was, one of the words I
Greg: was, I thought might be the case.
Greg: It wasn't, but the word tintinabulation didn't, it didn't turn out to fit,
Greg: but I came up with the, I remembered that word somehow.
Shannon: That sounds sexual.
Greg: It's not. Here's the weird thing. Tintinabulation.
Shannon: Tintinabulation. Tintinabulation.
Jeff: It's the, uh, the...
Jeff: You're auditing or calculating. No? No?
Greg: Okay. Tintinabulation is the ringing of a bell.
Shannon: What?
Greg: The sound of the ringing of a bell is called tintinabulation.
Greg: And when I thought about that, I was like, that's a big word for such a little thing.
Shannon: Okay, wait. Is it the act of ringing the bell or the sound?
Greg: It's the sound.
Shannon: Okay. Tintinabulation.
Greg: Tintinabulation.
Shannon: How did I not learn that?
Jeff: That's weird. I never equated a latin.
Greg: So the tintinabulation of the bell or the e to tin.
Jeff: I understand that. It's just the whole tabulate through me.
Greg: It's not tabulation. It's tintinabulation.
Shannon: Tintinabulation. But how did I not learn that in music theory?
Greg: I don't know. That's why the full thing I had was tintinabulation and the oddities
Greg: of language form and code switching.
Greg: Because to me, tintinnabulation is a big word for something that you could describe
Greg: as the ring of a bell, right?
Greg: I mean, why would you make a word like that when the ring of the bell takes just as much time?
Jeff: Is it also?
Shannon: Yeah, and much easier.
Jeff: Is it also like tuning forks? Is that tintinnabulation?
Greg: That's what I think is I feel like, and I don't know for sure,
Greg: and I wanted to wait until this to actually look it up because I feel like that
Greg: is probably where it came from.
Greg: It probably came from like a scientific, you know, examination.
Greg: So they wanted to expressly talk about not a bell, not the act of ringing a
Greg: bell, but the sound that comes from ringing a bell.
Greg: They're being very expressive about that.
Greg: Then they felt the need to create this word. But now I'm going to look up the
Greg: origins of the word and we'll see what it actually.
Shannon: All right.
Jeff: Well, Greg's doing his Googling. Let's talk about Dark World here. What do you think?
Shannon: Well, I was letting it.
Jeff: Yeah, it's a little more room temperature.
Shannon: It's very boozy. Very boozy.
Jeff: It's a good combination for me of roast and barrel and booze and vanilla.
Shannon: And marshmallow.
Shannon: And dark chocolate.
Greg: Interesting.
Shannon: Actually, not really. Dark, dark chocolate. It's kind of a medium dark chocolate.
Shannon: With some cherry.
Jeff: Oh, it totally has marshmallow kind of vibes in the flavor. It's soft.
Shannon: Oh, you already tasted it.
Jeff: Heck yeah.
Shannon: It's not warm yet.
Jeff: All the better reason to start tasting it.
Shannon: This is my type of beer.
Greg: Couldn't be more wrong.
Jeff: Oh, shit.
Greg: Tintinabulation, the ringing of a bell or bells, 1823 from the Latin, tintinabulum, bell.
Shannon: Tintinabulum bell.
Jeff: Oh, that's fucking Greek.
Greg: No, it's Latin.
Jeff: No, Latin.
Greg: Fucking Romans.
Jeff: It's fucking Romans.
Greg: Oh, that's good. beautiful uh so that tintine abulum comes from tinir to ring
Greg: plus the instrumental suffix bulim,
Greg: so there it does make sense from a i guess perspective of your latin speaker
Greg: why you'd have a long word for that because you had bulim to something and that makes an instrument,
Greg: so and then tin tin air tin tin ear whatever is to ring,
Greg: so ringing instrument tin tin and then to uh i guess make it into sort of english adding the asian.
Jeff: Hmm. Okay.
Greg: Weird, huh? Isn't language weird?
Jeff: I'm just wondering why tinnitus is so short and why isn't tintinabulitis?
Shannon: Tintinabulitis. Wow.
Greg: Well, I mean, the thing is, like, yeah, because you can clearly see the tinnitus,
Greg: you know, comes from that root.
Jeff: Because it's not a bell, maybe?
Greg: Well, the bulim comes from the instrument, so you wouldn't have that. But why not Tintin?
Greg: Because, well, Tineer is just ring, so it's just one.
Greg: But Tintinare is to ring or jingle. They say a reduplicated form of Tineer.
Shannon: There's so many Tintins that you should make a rap song.
Greg: I wonder if Tintin came from a bell, like that character name.
Shannon: I don't know. But you should create a rap song.
Greg: I should create a rap song.
Jeff: About where's the gummies at i don't know.
Shannon: It's just he's going on about the tin tins and all the idises and all the tin.
Greg: Tins and the win-wins and the pin pins.
Shannon: Yeah make it up let's go.
Jeff: That'd be a fun yeah why Mario okay yeah why we're getting totally posho here
Jeff: why was Tintin the name selected for the dog in the Wizard of Oz what isn't
Jeff: that what you're talking about.
Greg: No Tintin there's a character the name of the dog is Toto yeah.
Shannon: Toto I knew Tintin was wrong what's.
Jeff: Tintin then Where's that from?
Greg: I feel like there's a character named Tin Tin.
Jeff: Sounds familiar. Familiar enough that I thought it was the Wizard of Oz.
Greg: Yeah, The Adventures of Tintin. It's this looking guy. This guy's like a cowlick.
Jeff: Don't know.
Greg: I don't know. There's a lot on here. Who knows if it comes from that at all.
Jeff: What do you say we go over to... We're really like just...
Shannon: Well we we haven't rated yeah.
Greg: We haven't talked about this before
Greg: that the main show and the poster are basically the same thing okay all.
Jeff: Right all right.
Shannon: Well i think we should rate.
Greg: I haven't even tasted this one yet.
Shannon: Oh you taste.
Jeff: He's been too too working too hard.
Greg: Lots of really deep dark roastiness,
Greg: maybe a bit of that marshmallow,
Greg: Marshmallow.
Shannon: Cherries, chocolate.
Greg: Ooh. It's got that hug at the end, too, that you like.
Greg: And then it goes almost kind of a raisiny, chocolatey note. Like you said, cherry.
Shannon: Yeah, dark chocolate. Not a dark, dark, dark chocolate. A dark chocolate,
Shannon: like a medium dark chocolate with cherry.
Shannon: it's very boozy it's just very perfect that's.
Greg: Pretty dang good,
Greg: I
Shannon: Tried to blend I.
Jeff: Don't think I made it better though.
Shannon: Jeff's tinning I added that berry one I added just a little bit of the berry one to.
Jeff: It because I thought it would be this berry.
Shannon: One oh because it's got the cherry and marshmallows the berry and marshmallow one Not.
Greg: The very rat turd one.
Jeff: Not the rat turd one.
Greg: No, not the good one.
Jeff: Speaking of rat turds.
Shannon: Let's dump some farm on this one. Speaking of rat turds.
Greg: Let's judge.
Jeff: I have some robins nesting right outside my window. I get to watch them all day.
Jeff: And they're probably going to fledge in probably like two or three more days.
Jeff: But they started out really small and you could just barely see their heads
Jeff: peeking over the rim of the nest when they were feeding them.
Jeff: and i was watching them get fed all the time and
Jeff: every once in a while you see two instead of three i'm like oh this one gonna die that's
Jeff: very drama i like it but every once in a while i'd see them feed the worm and
Jeff: then i'd see this peak of this white stuff that the mama would have in its mouth
Jeff: and i thought maybe it was regurgitation or something like that i couldn't then
Jeff: i realized it was going the other direction i'm like what the fuck is that so
Jeff: i get on the internet and And apparently,
Jeff: nestlings, as soon as they eat, they poop. Like, it's a one for one.
Jeff: They'll eat. Ten seconds later, they poop.
Shannon: Just like you.
Jeff: I don't think I'd poop 10 seconds after I eat. You'd be very busy because I'm
Jeff: going to talk about the rest of the process right now.
Shannon: I'm kidding.
Jeff: So when nestlings poop, they have a fecal sac. So everything's encapsulated
Jeff: in this like hard-ish pill-shaped thing.
Jeff: And the process is the parents, and both parents are doing duty feeding these chicks, right?
Jeff: Drops the food off, stands there, waits the 10 seconds.
Jeff: And as the birds got bigger, I could see this more and more clearly.
Jeff: bird sticks his butt up in the air, poops out a fecal sack, and the mama or
Jeff: dada gets it right when it comes out of their butt.
Shannon: Before it hits the nest.
Jeff: And they either fly it away to dispose of it or they eat it,
Jeff: depending on if there's still a bunch of nutrients because their digestive systems aren't very good.
Jeff: So I've been watching adult robins eat baby bird shit for a week now. And that's a mood.
Shannon: And he has video.
Greg: I mean... No, it sounds like a very reasonable thing to evolve because you want to keep the nest clean.
Jeff: Yeah, there was, there's every once in a while, like there was one time where
Jeff: a baby bird, mama picked up one of the fecal sacks and flew away and another
Jeff: bird pooped like in the thing.
Jeff: And a little later, I see like, every once in a while I see mama or dad like
Jeff: really being meticulous in the bottom of the nest, pecking, pecking,
Jeff: pecking, pecking, pecking. I think they're eating poop that's popped and is
Jeff: all over the bottom of the nest.
Shannon: Yeah.
Greg: And just getting rid of it because...
Shannon: Babies stick their butt up and shoot the shit right into mama or papa's mouth.
Greg: I mean, the thing is, if you're a robin, you only have to do that for a couple
Greg: of weeks and then you don't even care about your kids at all.
Shannon: Yeah, I mean, like, I love my kids, but to only have to clean up shit and take
Shannon: care of them for a couple of weeks.
Greg: They really care about their kids for a while, and then...
Shannon: And then, boom, gone. One flew over the cuckoo's nest.
Jeff: I want to know what the data was doing between, like, he was around a little
Jeff: bit during nest building.
Jeff: and he was like he was right after feeding he was pieced out until the eggs
Jeff: hatched and then he's been on
Jeff: full duty but like he wasn't hanging around the nest too much other than.
Greg: So they actually spit out their poop. Instead of going through their clegway, they...
Jeff: No, that was the butthole.
Shannon: No, that came out of his butt.
Jeff: That was the butthole. They stick their butt up in the air after they eat.
Greg: Okay. It looked like a... Let me get closer. All right. So I see the birds eating out.
Jeff: They do the whole begging thing. And the one ate, you know, in about 10 seconds later.
Shannon: There's the butt. There's the poop chute.
Jeff: Cloaca.
Greg: And so the nice thing about bird shit and bird pee is it's all one thing.
Greg: Just like reptiles, right? The pee is a kind of solid white thing. That's the urates.
Shannon: But from birds, it lands all over our vehicles.
Greg: Yeah. Yep. Birds poop a lot.
Shannon: Yes, they do.
Greg: They have, you know, high metabolism. They have, uh, uh, they are,
Greg: uh, ectotherms like we are.
Greg: So they, they poop a lot.
Shannon: That's why I'm a firm believer that birds do not belong in the house. Not mine.
Shannon: I don't care if you have birds in yours, but don't, I don't.
Greg: No, I think birds are probably some of the hardest things to take care of in, in the.
Shannon: I don't think that they should be in captivity. I think that they should be free.
Greg: You know, I mean, I don't know if I buy that, like, as a blanket rule.
Greg: I think it's fine for, like, a big macaw or something to be with.
Greg: They like socialization.
Shannon: I mean, yeah, but still, though, they're.
Jeff: Remember we went to that winery up in Seattle?
Shannon: Oh, that was crazy.
Jeff: There was.
Shannon: It wasn't a macaw.
Jeff: It was a whatever big white parrot thing. and the thing was in the winery tasting
Jeff: room screaming I can't remember the story was she watching it for the owners?
Shannon: She was watching it for the owners and if it couldn't see her it screeched and.
Jeff: It screeched at like 130 decibels.
Greg: Yeah there are two things about birds one birds are very very social,
Greg: so you kind of have to be they're a lifestyle not a pet that you can like they're
Greg: not like reptiles they are a lifestyle you have to,
Greg: even more than dogs you're living with your bird constantly.
Jeff: And the birds are going to outlive you yeah.
Greg: Some of them mate and the other thing is that they're also really easy to kill.
Shannon: That's a good thing I'm sorry I shouldn't have said that out loud.
Greg: Get their conditions wrong a little bit they can go into shock cook some Teflon
Greg: near them they can die they're just not,
Greg: like I I think that birds can be amazing like companions in some ways but yeah
Greg: not not for me I would never want to put that kind of work into it.
Shannon: Nope and I just I don't know I think I love to see them flying around free,
Shannon: i just don't like to see any bird in a cage.
Greg: Well i mean i.
Shannon: Don't like it i don't think that that's that's not what they were.
Greg: I've seen i've seen stuff like of people who keep birds very humanely and well.
Shannon: Yeah no i i i agree i just i personally feel like they should be able to fly
Shannon: freely and not be in a cage.
Greg: Regardless I don't care how they just don't like to.
Shannon: Exactly, but birds do. That's their purpose in life.
Shannon: No, they are, yes, but they're very different in the fact that birds do like to fly.
Shannon: They want to be out. They want to be free. They want to be...
Greg: I don't know. I think that a bird, if it's raised with a human,
Greg: it wants to be with a human.
Jeff: I mean, chickens are that case in particular. It's advantageous for them to
Jeff: hang out around the farm. They don't generally, like you've seen chickens like
Jeff: at that place in West Virginia, right?
Jeff: They're just, they could have fucked the fuck off if they wanted to.
Greg: They're fully capable.
Jeff: But they didn't, you know. It's just like the dogs, like our wolf that lives
Jeff: in the living room there finds it advantageous to hang out with us, you know.
Shannon: That's because of food.
Greg: The dog fucking loves you. It's a different thing.
Shannon: He's food motivated too.
Greg: He loves food too, but he is loyal as heck to you. And in a way that other animals are not.
Jeff: It's a different degree of living around humans is beneficial.
Greg: It's a very different thing with dieting. The only thing that comes anywhere
Greg: even close, from what I understand, I've never even seen it,
Greg: but I have heard that it's true, is fancy rats can be just as, like, loving.
Shannon: But they are so hard to take care of.
Greg: I mean, rats hustle people a lot, but also the big problem is they have really
Greg: great personalities, apparently. They're really cute, very loving,
Greg: and they die in two years.
Shannon: And they need an exorbitant amount of attention.
Greg: You can't have a rat without having a second rat, because otherwise the rat
Greg: will die of loneliness. Yeah, yeah.
Greg: It's that. Yeah, they have to have a companion at the very least.
Greg: So you can't get one rat. You have to get at least two.
Greg: And you've got to be prepared for—.
Jeff: If you're getting two, you might as well get six.
Greg: And you've got to be prepared for that crushing, because you're going to be
Greg: really attached to these rats because they have a lot of personality. and,
Greg: they'll be able to do tricks. They're really smart and then they're going to
Greg: die in two years because they're rodents and that's what rodents do.
Greg: And so, yeah, that really sucks. But if you're okay with that kind of commitment,
Greg: I do think that from what I understand, they make really great pets.
Shannon: Yeah, they do. If you can deal with the smell and clean up the shit.
Greg: Yeah, the clean, you gotta clean constantly.
Shannon: Daily.
Greg: They are not a potty trained animal.
Shannon: Daily.
Greg: Very tasty. Okay, so let's scoot past this and just do a fuck,
Greg: marry, kill. What do you say?
Shannon: Oh, all right.
Jeff: Okay, let's... Do you have an idea yet, Greg?
Greg: Yeah, yeah. So I'm going to fuck this one that we just had, because,
Greg: I mean, it's the best of the lot, I think.
Greg: Although, well, yes, I will fuck this one, and I'm going to marry the berry marshmallow.
Jeff: Okay.
Greg: Because we will balance. I think that you could have that a lot and then you
Greg: could use it in a lot of different things.
Jeff: Yeah, yeah.
Greg: You know, and,
Greg: I'm not going to,
Greg: part of me wants to kill the 90 minute, but I still think that that's not what
Greg: I remember. So I'm going to kill the rat poop.
Jeff: Okay. Works out. I am going to I got to marry the Elliot Ness.
Jeff: I'm going to Elliot Ness for two.
Shannon: Oh, yeah.
Jeff: I'm going to fuck the...
Jeff: Geez, I don't know.
Shannon: Oh, that's interesting.
Jeff: Yeah, I guess the Dark World. And I'll kill the Holy Mountain. Same as Greg.
Shannon: I'm going to fuck the Dark World that we just had.
Shannon: I am going to marry, interestingly enough, according to my stats,
Shannon: here, I'm going to marry the Elliot Ness.
Jeff: Okay.
Shannon: And I am going to kill the 90 minute.
Greg: And if you could, if you could take the 90 minute out of...
Shannon: If I took the 90 minute out, then I would kill the Holy Mountain Sacred Geometry.
Greg: Alright.
Jeff: Alright. Cool.
Shannon: Which is sad because...
Jeff: All right so that was uh.
Shannon: That's a wrap 20 years for you guys not for me but for you guys.
Greg: Congratulations that's a huge huge we did it just like we planned right yeah
Greg: i mean maybe not exactly as you planned the pandemic kind of put a.
Shannon: Damper on things.
Greg: Divorce yeah.
Shannon: Kind of put a damper on things.
Greg: But you made it through you know the beer industry as a whole kind of put a damper on things yeah.
Jeff: I mean that's one of the things we didn't really get into too much but uh like
Jeff: there's a lot of things i we we went through peak craft beer i think and it's
Jeff: gonna never be the same so we'll see nothing's.
Shannon: Ever the same.
Jeff: No everything's ever changing.
Greg: So listen in for show because we're going to do a chartreuse versus the kind
Greg: of the Luxardo new chartreuse the green stuff and talk about more shit.
Shannon: See ya out.