WEBVTT 00:00:10.978 --> 00:00:17.938 Welcome to Craft Beer Radio, episode 527th, on June 3rd, 2020. 00:00:19.918 --> 00:00:24.518 Hey, everybody. This is the 20th anniversary show. 00:00:24.798 --> 00:00:29.838 And this song, believe it or not, was number one when we did our first show. 00:00:30.578 --> 00:00:32.198 Very first show. 00:00:32.418 --> 00:00:39.638 Very first show. The sentiment, not being, not able to, you gotta adjust the sound. 00:00:39.638 --> 00:00:43.918 It's on the wrong. There we go. It wasn't on one of my physical sliders. 00:00:44.178 --> 00:00:48.258 So I was like, ah, crap. How do I do that? Then I remembered how to do that on the virtual slider. 00:00:48.638 --> 00:00:51.498 Yeah, our 20th anniversary show. I said June 3rd. And Shannon's like, 00:00:51.578 --> 00:00:54.418 that's not today's date. Well, that's the date we put out our first show. 00:00:54.898 --> 00:00:59.378 So, yeah, 20 freaking years. 00:01:00.198 --> 00:01:03.618 And I've been looking at the things. If you go on our Discord, 00:01:03.938 --> 00:01:05.838 if you're not on our Discord, you should be on our Discord. If you go to our 00:01:05.838 --> 00:01:13.798 Discord, I posted the 50 largest breweries in 2005, which is interesting. 00:01:14.158 --> 00:01:20.138 I also posted Beer Advocates Top 100 Beers for June 3rd, 2005. 00:01:20.738 --> 00:01:27.918 And it's different, but it's not as different as I would have thought. 00:01:28.138 --> 00:01:34.418 It was late enough that a lot of those early days whales on the General Channel yesterday, 00:01:34.418 --> 00:01:38.858 day but i posted that other thing so it's it's up in the history of okay okay 00:01:38.858 --> 00:01:45.618 um yeah so feeling quite nostalgic and i think we're going to kick this off 00:01:45.618 --> 00:01:48.878 with this is old news meets new news what we're going to kick off with today 00:01:48.878 --> 00:01:53.738 because uh also on our discord we were talking about how at the world beer cup a couple. 00:01:53.738 --> 00:01:56.958 Weeks well let's do our first beer for let's do the 90 minute first i think 00:01:56.958 --> 00:02:00.198 we should start off with that and unless you think that we want to oh you know what. 00:02:00.198 --> 00:02:02.398 90 minutes a big bitter boy i. 00:02:02.398 --> 00:02:07.198 I hear what you're saying actually now as soon as i said it i thought i thought better yeah so. 00:02:07.198 --> 00:02:10.158 Um at the world beer cup in the extra 00:02:10.158 --> 00:02:15.498 special bitter category the gold medal was uh raise some eyebrows it was sierra 00:02:15.498 --> 00:02:23.258 nevada pale ale and uh greg you know um has some opinions on this which we'll 00:02:23.258 --> 00:02:27.018 get into but i thought it was a great crossover of like the kind of beer we 00:02:27.018 --> 00:02:29.638 would have had on one of our first shows yeah. 00:02:29.638 --> 00:02:32.698 Yeah no and i i want to try it too because 00:02:32.698 --> 00:02:35.758 you know like you said i have opinions on this and i 00:02:35.758 --> 00:02:41.698 do want to try it to cement whether those opinions are uh accurate or not um 00:02:41.698 --> 00:02:49.718 the there was a article that you posted um from vine pair about how about this 00:02:49.718 --> 00:02:55.418 and i read the whole thing and um very interesting well written good article about it and i was like, 00:02:57.550 --> 00:03:05.030 And I mentioned in Giscord that I had two thoughts that I'm going to expand on. 00:03:05.170 --> 00:03:07.750 And the first was, this is a fucking travesty. 00:03:08.410 --> 00:03:08.970 Yes. 00:03:09.150 --> 00:03:13.770 That Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is winning an ESB gold. 00:03:14.390 --> 00:03:17.970 And the second one is, I kind of get it. 00:03:19.190 --> 00:03:19.590 Yeah. 00:03:21.570 --> 00:03:24.290 And when the first thing I smelled was malt. 00:03:24.930 --> 00:03:25.490 Definitely. 00:03:25.490 --> 00:03:29.190 The very first thing I smelled here was malt. And I thought about it and I said, 00:03:29.270 --> 00:03:32.690 you know, a Sierra Nevada pale ale is a pretty malt forward beer from what I remember. 00:03:32.770 --> 00:03:37.030 It's not a kind of pale ale that you would think of as today's pale ale. 00:03:37.690 --> 00:03:47.570 I've never really, drinking it thinking of a pale ale, something hoppier than your average beer. 00:03:48.370 --> 00:03:52.450 I've never been like super satisfied with Sierra Nevada pale ale. 00:03:52.550 --> 00:03:56.390 I always thought it was a little unhoppy. but maybe i never drank it thinking 00:03:56.390 --> 00:03:59.690 i was going for an esb maybe that's the magic hack here so. 00:03:59.690 --> 00:04:07.030 Yeah because judges judge these blind they don't know what they're drinking 00:04:07.030 --> 00:04:15.870 and if you are primed to think esb will you taste esb here and i will pull up 00:04:15.870 --> 00:04:18.330 the category guidelines for esb and. 00:04:18.330 --> 00:04:19.050 Give Give us a quick read. 00:04:19.250 --> 00:04:20.210 Yeah, I'd like to hear that. 00:04:20.350 --> 00:04:26.770 So there are two kinds. There are the American style and the English style extra 00:04:26.770 --> 00:04:29.310 special bitter. I believe this was placed in the American style. 00:04:30.290 --> 00:04:33.870 So we'll go with the American style. Color amber to deep copper. 00:04:34.170 --> 00:04:38.470 In terms of color, we used to have that SRM sheet. I was thinking, what would this be? 00:04:40.450 --> 00:04:41.750 I don't even remember. 00:04:42.030 --> 00:04:42.870 It's more of a gold to me. 00:04:43.170 --> 00:04:48.250 Yeah, it's more gold. I don't think you could. Could you call that amber? 00:04:48.450 --> 00:04:49.110 Almost amber. 00:04:49.570 --> 00:04:49.850 Yeah. 00:04:50.210 --> 00:04:57.030 That feels... But I guess you could... Maybe you take off some points for it. Yeah. 00:04:57.470 --> 00:05:02.370 And for, like, homebrewing beer judging, visual is only three points out of the 50. 00:05:02.510 --> 00:05:09.150 So... Chill haze is acceptable at low temperatures. This is not incredible. 00:05:09.930 --> 00:05:11.630 Well, yeah, it feels pretty cold. 00:05:11.750 --> 00:05:11.810 It's pretty. 00:05:12.150 --> 00:05:14.570 So, and there's a little bit of haze in there. Yeah. 00:05:17.230 --> 00:05:22.310 perceive malt aroma and flavor medium to medium high yeah it's definitely it's 00:05:22.310 --> 00:05:27.030 definitely in that zone for sure now hop aroma and flavor medium to medium high 00:05:27.030 --> 00:05:29.490 and typical of American or other hop varieties, 00:05:32.250 --> 00:05:34.150 I'm smelling Cascade for sure. 00:05:38.710 --> 00:05:45.470 Motherfucker you drink this and you think ESB and it makes more sense to me 00:05:45.470 --> 00:05:47.810 than this beer has ever made and. 00:05:52.815 --> 00:05:56.155 Okay it's really malty, 00:05:58.635 --> 00:06:04.615 it's too hoppy for me like there's a pithy note that I do not get at ESBs at 00:06:04.615 --> 00:06:09.355 all and that would immediately turn me off so, 00:06:11.415 --> 00:06:17.135 I'm confused now because I thought that maybe it would be like it's malty than 00:06:17.135 --> 00:06:22.375 you remember the hops are more subdued than you remember but that note i've 00:06:22.375 --> 00:06:24.935 never gotten an esp right. 00:06:24.935 --> 00:06:31.895 But when i've drank this before and usually i don't know if we've ever had this on the show um. 00:06:31.895 --> 00:06:33.535 Maybe no but. 00:06:33.535 --> 00:06:36.375 And usually when i'm drinking it i'm not thinking it i'm thinking 00:06:36.375 --> 00:06:41.395 not thinking about it all that hard so i usually find that it's a bit underwhelming 00:06:41.395 --> 00:06:46.155 and i've never like noticed like the malt that i'm really enjoying in this flavor 00:06:46.155 --> 00:06:55.475 where it has a nice um in my current perspective it's a full malt that's kind of sweet muffiny um. 00:06:55.475 --> 00:07:04.375 It like legit this malt bill the way it tastes i could see this if you renamed 00:07:04.375 --> 00:07:08.555 it being something close to an esb and. 00:07:08.555 --> 00:07:13.255 Then it freaking compliments the citrusy hops like the orange goes right into it you know. 00:07:16.855 --> 00:07:21.975 That hop thing i don't get though like i i feel and maybe it's a chico yeast 00:07:21.975 --> 00:07:26.055 too it's not quite hitting me in the right way but it could be um that uh, 00:07:28.695 --> 00:07:33.675 there's something just that just strikes me as grapefruit pithy and orange pithy 00:07:33.675 --> 00:07:38.395 and that i really do not expect to taste in esb so when i taste that that really 00:07:38.395 --> 00:07:41.175 pulls me out completely So I get it less. 00:07:41.555 --> 00:07:44.735 I like the pithy comes late in the aftertaste. 00:07:44.915 --> 00:07:49.855 If you like, and you can take points off for that, but if you evaluate it like 00:07:49.855 --> 00:07:54.535 right on the flavor, I think that it's more fleshy and it fits better. 00:07:55.235 --> 00:07:58.935 And so this is the English dialect, especially bitter. Again, 00:07:59.095 --> 00:08:00.795 amber, deep colored, chill haze acceptable. 00:08:01.315 --> 00:08:04.815 Perceived malt aroma is medium to medium height. Perceived hop aroma is medium 00:08:04.815 --> 00:08:08.555 to medium height without the typical of American and other hop origins. 00:08:09.415 --> 00:08:12.955 perceived bitterness in both of these was medium to medium high, 00:08:15.555 --> 00:08:18.915 they both have the same exact fermentation characteristics, 00:08:19.555 --> 00:08:22.995 low carbonation traditionally characterizes draft cast versions but in bottle 00:08:22.995 --> 00:08:26.955 version a slight increase in carbon dioxide content is acceptable the overall 00:08:26.955 --> 00:08:30.295 impression is refreshing and thirst quenching fruity esters are acceptable diacetyl 00:08:30.295 --> 00:08:32.635 is usually absent in his beard but may be present at low levels, 00:08:33.995 --> 00:08:35.295 diacetyl butterscotch-y. 00:08:36.435 --> 00:08:39.575 That's kind of what this is missing is a little bit of that... 00:08:44.207 --> 00:08:48.307 I don't know how to describe it. Like an ESB, especially if I think of like Foolers. 00:08:48.487 --> 00:08:54.467 It's not like a toffee beer or a caramel beer, but there's like a vibe of it. 00:08:55.947 --> 00:09:01.207 Body, medium to full on the American. Body on the English, just medium. 00:09:03.327 --> 00:09:07.947 And additional notes. For American entries in this subcategory exhibit, 00:09:08.067 --> 00:09:10.847 hop aroma and flavor attributes typical of hops of many origins, 00:09:10.867 --> 00:09:15.007 which may deviate substantially from the hallmark attributes of traditional English hop varieties, 00:09:15.687 --> 00:09:19.707 and English style and entries in this category exhibit similar hop, 00:09:19.907 --> 00:09:24.047 exhibit hop aroma flavor attributes typical of English hop varieties. 00:09:24.327 --> 00:09:35.007 So I could see where this can fall under those vague that's it. 00:09:35.107 --> 00:09:38.227 And then there's just, you know, the original gravity and all this other stuff, 00:09:38.427 --> 00:09:42.247 but this could fall in that very vague description. 00:09:44.587 --> 00:09:48.447 And as was noted in the article, this is an example of Sierra Nevada really 00:09:48.447 --> 00:09:53.447 knowing their beer, knowing, looking at all of the categories and seeing which 00:09:53.447 --> 00:09:54.927 one does this one fit best. 00:09:55.087 --> 00:09:57.767 Yeah, that took the time to... 00:09:57.767 --> 00:10:03.007 And if you're thinking about just that and you're tasting this and you're thinking, 00:10:03.107 --> 00:10:05.627 okay, it's an American sauce, so I expect the hops to be more present. 00:10:05.627 --> 00:10:08.687 And you taste this and you think, okay, I expect a malty beer. 00:10:09.367 --> 00:10:09.927 Mm-hmm. 00:10:16.727 --> 00:10:17.747 i think it fits. 00:10:17.747 --> 00:10:23.247 The more i taste it the more i'm i'm feeling not so much but then again i'm 00:10:23.247 --> 00:10:26.867 tasting more and more of it uh where they don't really they don't they don't 00:10:26.867 --> 00:10:28.647 do this this many sips yeah. 00:10:28.647 --> 00:10:31.427 But yeah it would be like two three sips. 00:10:31.427 --> 00:10:31.987 You know that. 00:10:31.987 --> 00:10:32.427 Kind of thing. 00:10:32.427 --> 00:10:36.427 Uh i i, 00:10:40.591 --> 00:10:45.511 It's a fucking travesty because ESB is one of my favorite styles. I love ESBs. 00:10:46.851 --> 00:10:47.651 What's your favorite? 00:10:50.671 --> 00:10:55.291 Well, I mean, Fuller is always classic, but I find most ESBs that I found on 00:10:55.291 --> 00:10:56.371 the market are really pretty good. 00:10:56.491 --> 00:10:59.571 There was one in Boston. I forget what it was, but I think it's like, 00:10:59.691 --> 00:11:03.691 I think they might buy food from Rhode Island or something, but it was so good. 00:11:04.551 --> 00:11:08.051 And I got, I think I found it. I forget. 00:11:08.891 --> 00:11:12.851 It was really, really delicious. so I don't remember what it was but you know 00:11:12.851 --> 00:11:17.051 Fuller's was always pretty fine it's the standard, 00:11:19.971 --> 00:11:25.211 yeah I love the ESB style so much and this is not to me an ESB like maybe I'm 00:11:25.211 --> 00:11:28.511 just not into the American style but the ones that I like are the English style. 00:11:28.511 --> 00:11:33.591 So in 2005 I mean beer has evolved so much. 00:11:33.591 --> 00:11:34.231 Since then. 00:11:34.791 --> 00:11:37.691 So do you think that. 00:11:39.111 --> 00:11:41.451 I mean You did say. 00:11:41.451 --> 00:11:46.431 That you thought it was a travesty then, too. So, I guess there were really 00:11:46.431 --> 00:11:50.671 good ESB beers back then. 00:11:51.051 --> 00:11:51.451 No. 00:11:51.871 --> 00:11:54.251 Or did you just feel like this? 00:11:54.411 --> 00:11:57.291 I don't even know whether ESB was popular enough to be like. 00:11:57.411 --> 00:12:01.471 Well, I mean, Harpoon had their ESB, right? I mean, they weren't. 00:12:01.751 --> 00:12:06.511 Fuller's was better than any of the ones I can think of that were easily available back in the day. 00:12:06.711 --> 00:12:09.311 So, that one was better? Yeah, Fuller's is an English import. 00:12:10.191 --> 00:12:13.791 They originated the style oh and it was in the 80s that they did it so like 00:12:13.791 --> 00:12:20.251 it's not a really old style it's a relatively new style yeah that's what did you read the articles i. 00:12:20.251 --> 00:12:22.071 Didn't read that i missed that part okay. 00:12:22.071 --> 00:12:32.551 Um so it's yeah it's a it's a relatively new beer new style and certainly when 00:12:32.551 --> 00:12:36.291 craft beer was not as big as it is now there were not a lot of people making 00:12:36.291 --> 00:12:38.091 British-style ales in general. 00:12:38.511 --> 00:12:42.211 Everyone is just making pale ales and maybe some stouts and stuff like that. 00:12:42.391 --> 00:12:46.571 I mean, brewpubs would have, you know, them occasionally. They would have those 00:12:46.571 --> 00:12:49.411 more than milds or best bidders back in the day. 00:12:49.671 --> 00:12:57.751 ESBs were kind of hoppier and more, you know, more closely related to what American 00:12:57.751 --> 00:12:59.111 pale ales were at the time. 00:13:00.091 --> 00:13:03.451 What's curious to me, I'm going to look this up, is what is the American pale 00:13:03.451 --> 00:13:08.811 ale, right? How does this fit in with the style of a pale ale, what it's sold as? 00:13:09.611 --> 00:13:11.291 And let's see if I can find it. 00:13:11.931 --> 00:13:19.191 I don't think that it's going to describe it as being as malt forward. 00:13:20.171 --> 00:13:27.291 That's my expectation, too. But I don't see what's going on here. 00:13:28.771 --> 00:13:32.531 Isn't that one that's always available when we go to a concert? Yeah. 00:13:33.988 --> 00:13:39.868 It's pretty widely available. I don't know if always would be. 00:13:40.048 --> 00:13:48.128 But I mean, I feel like most of the concerts we go to and we're limited to five 00:13:48.128 --> 00:13:52.888 or six beers that we can purchase. That's one of them. 00:13:53.548 --> 00:13:58.068 So for pale ale, I see there's an English classic English style pale ale. 00:13:59.568 --> 00:14:03.848 There is English style India pale ale. Michelle Summer Ale. 00:14:04.008 --> 00:14:08.468 There's also America-style pale ale. Should we look at that one? 00:14:08.528 --> 00:14:09.548 Because that's probably what you'd think. 00:14:10.748 --> 00:14:15.248 America-style pale ale. Straw to light amber. I think this fits in terms of color there. 00:14:16.088 --> 00:14:19.288 Chill haze is acceptable at low temperatures. Hot haze is allowable at any temperature. 00:14:19.548 --> 00:14:23.928 There's not a lot of really hot haze here. It's pretty clear now that it's warmed up a bit. 00:14:25.108 --> 00:14:29.768 Low caramel malt aroma is allowable. Low to medium maltiness may include low 00:14:29.768 --> 00:14:30.988 caramel malt character. 00:14:31.288 --> 00:14:32.868 Yeah, see, Yeah, I don't think it fits. 00:14:34.928 --> 00:14:36.308 It's at the very top. It's bready. 00:14:36.508 --> 00:14:37.208 It's not really caramel. 00:14:37.388 --> 00:14:37.508 No. 00:14:39.268 --> 00:14:43.148 Perceived hop aroma high, exhibiting a wide range of attributes in floral citrus. 00:14:43.368 --> 00:14:46.668 It's not really a wide range. It's very singular. 00:14:49.188 --> 00:14:52.728 Perceived bitterness medium to medium high. This is pretty bitter. I'd say medium. 00:14:53.788 --> 00:14:58.228 3D esters may be low to high. Diacetyl should not be present. Body medium. 00:14:58.948 --> 00:15:02.608 Maybe they got a particularly diacetyl-y bottle of Sierra Nevada. 00:15:08.283 --> 00:15:10.043 I'm taking this out of the cans, so it should be. 00:15:11.403 --> 00:15:15.203 Lightwise, it should be great, yeah. They only had the cans where I got picked this up. 00:15:16.023 --> 00:15:23.043 And the date, is it in common date format? 00:15:24.123 --> 00:15:28.243 Looks like it was canned in February, February 3rd. 00:15:29.343 --> 00:15:34.683 So, I don't know. I was more pissed off when I first saw it, 00:15:34.683 --> 00:15:40.783 And now, you know, I'm less like, but now that I've tasted them, 00:15:40.863 --> 00:15:41.783 we're kind of pissed off. 00:15:41.903 --> 00:15:47.323 But I also, Greg made a good point, which is that, you know, 00:15:47.463 --> 00:15:50.583 I guess ESPs don't travel well, and there were just probably not a lot of good 00:15:50.583 --> 00:15:53.303 stuff in the competition, and this just sort of rose to the top. 00:15:53.723 --> 00:15:56.783 Yeah. Didn't lose too many points for being off-style. 00:15:56.923 --> 00:15:57.283 Yeah. 00:15:59.523 --> 00:16:03.183 And so that gets into the weird thing of, should they be able to do that? 00:16:03.183 --> 00:16:09.303 Well, they will not award a gold medal if they think nothing is exemplary to the style. 00:16:09.863 --> 00:16:10.643 Oh, really? 00:16:10.963 --> 00:16:16.343 And that's another thing that bugs me is if this is what's there, 00:16:16.343 --> 00:16:25.863 maybe I'm just so against the America style ESB that I... 00:16:25.863 --> 00:16:29.983 But if this is what's there, then this is the gold and I wouldn't be awarding a gold. 00:16:30.023 --> 00:16:31.903 Part of it is you weren't in the room where it happened. 00:16:32.203 --> 00:16:34.843 Yes. I wasn't a judge. 00:16:38.763 --> 00:16:44.703 I think that, if anything, the travesty is, why aren't there better and more ESBs being made? 00:16:45.483 --> 00:16:46.923 Yes, I agree. 00:16:47.323 --> 00:16:54.443 And that's kind of the big takeaway, is there should never be a case where Sierra 00:16:54.443 --> 00:16:57.463 Nevada Pale Ale wins ESB, because there should be an ESB, 00:16:58.203 --> 00:17:02.483 a couple of them, that are way better in every way. 00:17:02.483 --> 00:17:05.863 I shouldn't be able to go to Deez and not find an ESB on the show. 00:17:06.323 --> 00:17:06.683 Yes. 00:17:08.614 --> 00:17:11.774 And that's why it's a fucking travesty more than anything else. 00:17:12.334 --> 00:17:19.274 ESB is such a good style. And for it to be awarded to Sierra Nevada Pela just 00:17:19.274 --> 00:17:22.434 feels like an insult. But again. 00:17:22.634 --> 00:17:23.834 Well, it was 2005. 00:17:24.234 --> 00:17:25.494 No, it was 2025. 00:17:26.274 --> 00:17:33.134 Oh, wait. What? No, I'm so. 2025. I thought you guys were talking about that it won in 2005. 00:17:34.794 --> 00:17:38.174 This year. This year it won. 00:17:39.414 --> 00:17:44.854 yeah for anybody who's confused this is the 2025 we're talking about this year i'm probably the. 00:17:44.854 --> 00:17:48.354 Only one that's confused my brain's dead i worked all day so. 00:17:48.354 --> 00:17:50.454 So it's. 00:17:50.454 --> 00:17:51.294 Usually dead anyway. 00:17:51.294 --> 00:17:54.094 Yeah in 2025 there should be more esps out 00:17:54.094 --> 00:17:57.314 there better esps than sierra nevada 00:17:57.314 --> 00:18:01.754 pale ale yeah so i 00:18:01.754 --> 00:18:07.234 don't know yeah i i imagine that now i understand in 2005 sierra nevada pale 00:18:07.234 --> 00:18:11.494 ale was kind of right in the middle of what a pale ale would be in their guidelines 00:18:11.494 --> 00:18:18.374 because it would not be for example a bunch of different hops yeah there wouldn't have been any of the. 00:18:18.374 --> 00:18:19.474 Gen 2 gen 3. 00:18:19.474 --> 00:18:20.114 Hops right. 00:18:20.114 --> 00:18:24.934 It would have just been you know you have cascade to play with and chinook to 00:18:24.934 --> 00:18:27.234 play with and other things but, 00:18:28.914 --> 00:18:35.034 alright so our second beer is another old has a very warm spot in my heart and 00:18:35.034 --> 00:18:43.014 a keynote place on craft beer radio it's the first lager that I enjoyed. 00:18:44.314 --> 00:18:49.714 Yeah you were for those of you who don't want to go back all the way and listen and I don't blame you, 00:18:50.834 --> 00:18:55.094 it's a lot of shows it's a lot of content um i'm 00:18:55.094 --> 00:18:57.994 sure that there's some ai scraping it that we'll be able to to 00:18:57.994 --> 00:19:01.414 replicate our personalities and and poorly but 00:19:01.414 --> 00:19:09.274 yeah you were very unloggery because as you know that was the beginning of the 00:19:09.274 --> 00:19:13.194 show was kind of the the height of our beer snobbiness i think in terms of where 00:19:13.194 --> 00:19:17.014 where we were thinking because we did have that a lot of experience and so we 00:19:17.014 --> 00:19:19.054 were thinking well you know lagers suck, 00:19:19.974 --> 00:19:21.354 ales are good yeah. 00:19:21.354 --> 00:19:22.874 Dunning-Kruger in full effect. 00:19:22.874 --> 00:19:26.614 Yeah yeah let's focus on ales. 00:19:26.614 --> 00:19:28.734 So tell me about this beer. 00:19:28.734 --> 00:19:33.074 This is Elliot Ness from Great Lakes Brewing Company it's a Vienna lager same 00:19:33.074 --> 00:19:36.094 kind of style as Samuel Adams Boston lager more or less oh okay, 00:19:37.674 --> 00:19:43.534 and I don't you know I just remember like having things like Sam Adams it tasted like, 00:19:44.874 --> 00:19:51.214 metallic and you know like not enjoyable and the first one that kind of was 00:19:51.214 --> 00:19:52.994 my gateway was this one here. 00:19:54.669 --> 00:20:00.749 And I think that we came to a conclusion that the metallicness was sort of the 00:20:00.749 --> 00:20:04.889 noble hop, a sort of a noble hop thing that we hadn't gotten used to. 00:20:05.309 --> 00:20:10.849 Yeah, probably a play of the noble hop spiciness along with the lack of esters 00:20:10.849 --> 00:20:13.229 from, you know, ale fermentation. 00:20:14.209 --> 00:20:19.449 So Elliot Ness, 6.1% octoboy volume, pretty high for a lager. 00:20:19.649 --> 00:20:22.889 But a Vienna lager, I guess it's around the side. I think Santa Matta's is a 00:20:22.889 --> 00:20:30.269 little bit lower. but uh the hops are mount hood now how noble are mount hood hops i don't know. 00:20:31.429 --> 00:20:36.869 Um i mean they're not a citrusy hop i right i don't know their profile super 00:20:36.869 --> 00:20:41.509 well but i would think i think mount hood was probably a hop that was used by 00:20:41.509 --> 00:20:45.329 legacy brewers in america for brewing lagers and things like. 00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:47.309 That and it's still being made with mount hood so like. 00:20:47.309 --> 00:20:49.989 Where do they get it i've never heard of it. 00:20:49.989 --> 00:20:51.069 Um 00:20:51.069 --> 00:20:54.649 Most of the hops are grown in Oregon or Washington. 00:20:54.889 --> 00:20:55.389 Oh, okay. 00:20:55.669 --> 00:20:59.429 German Hillertal. That's where it originates from. Okay. Yeah, Noble. 00:20:59.709 --> 00:21:04.069 Yeah, so it was probably, I would guess here, I'm just riffing off the top of 00:21:04.069 --> 00:21:08.749 my head, is, you know, there was a brewing history in the United States breaking 00:21:08.749 --> 00:21:13.649 German lagers and they probably isolated Mount Hood and was using it for those kind of beers. 00:21:14.529 --> 00:21:22.209 Malted with a two-row base, Munich Cara 45 and Caramel 30. So lots of deeper, darker malts in here. 00:21:22.889 --> 00:21:24.609 It's got that amber color. 00:21:25.449 --> 00:21:27.189 Here's the sb looking beer. 00:21:27.189 --> 00:21:31.109 Right yeah doesn't taste like an sb though no. 00:21:31.109 --> 00:21:33.789 It doesn't probably doesn't because it's a lager first of all. 00:21:33.789 --> 00:21:37.609 Yep the aroma on this one toasty. 00:21:38.729 --> 00:21:41.749 Toasty yeah definitely toasty. 00:21:42.509 --> 00:21:47.569 Uh yeah it's just just what i want in you know uh like a that. 00:21:47.569 --> 00:21:48.609 Smell nice it's got. 00:21:48.609 --> 00:21:51.389 A citrus i'm trying to pick up on the citrus. 00:21:51.389 --> 00:21:55.329 Vanilla Lagers, for people who might not know, they're similar to Oktoberfest beers. 00:21:55.669 --> 00:21:59.929 Usually they're a little less hoppy than Oktoberfest beers, but that's just 00:21:59.929 --> 00:22:02.269 a generalization and not a hard and fast rule. 00:22:05.229 --> 00:22:10.609 Yeah, I feel like Martins can go everywhere. I've tasted Martins that go in 00:22:10.609 --> 00:22:11.349 all different directions. 00:22:16.009 --> 00:22:19.569 It has a really big, you know, toffee flavor. 00:22:19.969 --> 00:22:20.129 I like that. 00:22:20.129 --> 00:22:22.229 Has, um, rustic. 00:22:22.629 --> 00:22:25.869 Right up front, a lot of, yeah, a lot of, like, yeah, rustic bread and, 00:22:25.889 --> 00:22:31.309 uh, deep and dark bread, like, from an oven. Uh, 00:22:33.711 --> 00:22:38.751 It's got that noble hop thing in the background, but the breadiness overcomes any sort of things. 00:22:38.851 --> 00:22:45.971 That's probably why it was one of the first, because like the spicy note is kind of muted. 00:22:46.431 --> 00:22:50.491 Actually, I was going to bring up, I'm getting this late like spice. 00:22:50.591 --> 00:22:55.731 It's almost like it's zinging, like burning on my tongue kind of spice. 00:22:55.951 --> 00:22:57.051 Anyone getting anything like that? 00:22:57.111 --> 00:23:03.951 No, I am. And I'm thinking of my mom, when I was growing up, 00:23:04.031 --> 00:23:08.251 made this coffee cake every year for Christmas. 00:23:09.451 --> 00:23:15.271 And it's like very, that very bready flavor. 00:23:15.531 --> 00:23:22.471 But it had that spice and I don't know what it is, but it's reminding me of 00:23:22.471 --> 00:23:24.511 that spice that's in that coffee cake. 00:23:24.511 --> 00:23:28.511 It's got a little bit of a bread pudding thing, I think, that kind of flavor. 00:23:28.811 --> 00:23:29.191 Yeah. 00:23:29.531 --> 00:23:35.691 And it has that laggery note, which is, you know, it's the body feels like it's 00:23:35.691 --> 00:23:39.571 a bit more aqueous than an ale in general. 00:23:39.771 --> 00:23:44.711 I feel like it's like rimmed on the outside by a little bit of water as opposed 00:23:44.711 --> 00:23:46.611 to where an ale feels more full. 00:23:47.431 --> 00:23:52.231 But it also means that it feels more quaffable, more drinkable in that sense. 00:23:52.231 --> 00:23:55.231 It doesn't feel as heavy as it's going down. 00:23:55.991 --> 00:24:01.771 So that's the trade-off you make, I guess. You go, is it going to be better 00:24:01.771 --> 00:24:03.011 as a lager? Is it going to be better as an ale? 00:24:03.171 --> 00:24:07.831 I'd be curious what this beer tastes like with ale yeast. 00:24:09.231 --> 00:24:13.791 Oh, it'd be way different. You know, it'd be, it would have, 00:24:13.971 --> 00:24:16.211 I mean, it depends on which yeast, on how ester it would be. 00:24:16.311 --> 00:24:21.171 But the esters would bring it around. it'd probably be more like a dark wheat 00:24:21.171 --> 00:24:25.071 beer kind of vibe you know something along those lines yeah and not. 00:24:25.071 --> 00:24:28.831 Exactly not a hood wouldn't be enough to probably be over sweet without yeah 00:24:28.831 --> 00:24:33.571 more sharper bitterness yeah cause there's not a lot of bitterness here at all 00:24:33.571 --> 00:24:35.831 at least not a lot of apparent bitterness mmhmm, 00:24:43.150 --> 00:24:44.290 Pretty tasty, though. 00:24:44.550 --> 00:24:47.590 It is. And I'm tasting like a banana nut bread. 00:24:47.950 --> 00:24:49.810 Yes. Good call. 00:24:50.010 --> 00:24:51.010 Heavy on the nuts. 00:24:51.330 --> 00:24:52.370 Yeah. Very heavy on the nuts. 00:24:52.370 --> 00:24:53.010 That's what she said. 00:24:56.490 --> 00:24:58.330 I don't have my... 00:24:58.330 --> 00:24:59.630 Too late. 00:24:59.850 --> 00:25:00.390 Too late. 00:25:00.450 --> 00:25:01.130 Missed opportunities. 00:25:01.650 --> 00:25:04.230 But it is a reminder to bringing them up. 00:25:04.470 --> 00:25:07.430 So turn your volume back up so you can. 00:25:09.190 --> 00:25:10.390 Hold on for what? 00:25:10.390 --> 00:25:10.670 Hold on for what? 00:25:11.870 --> 00:25:15.370 So, sorry everyone, there was a weird pause right there when I was trying to 00:25:15.370 --> 00:25:16.910 bring up Greg's audio sound. 00:25:17.070 --> 00:25:20.110 I was trying to change menus and I hit the pause button. We're back. 00:25:20.630 --> 00:25:26.770 Ah. Ah. Ah. Jeff, you disappoint me. 00:25:27.250 --> 00:25:30.570 I know. You'd think after 20 years I'd get the hang of this shit. 00:25:30.750 --> 00:25:31.610 I would think. 00:25:33.590 --> 00:25:34.710 But, oh well. 00:25:35.510 --> 00:25:41.130 This is, I like this. I mean, I don't know if I'd want to drink it all the time. 00:25:42.630 --> 00:25:43.530 That's a good six-pack. 00:25:43.570 --> 00:25:44.610 It'd be a nice thing to have in the fridge. 00:25:44.830 --> 00:25:45.650 Nice. Yeah. 00:25:46.290 --> 00:25:48.390 Put in the back and, you know, occasional going out. 00:25:48.510 --> 00:25:51.530 I think it's definitely something we need to throw in the new fridge. 00:25:52.110 --> 00:25:53.050 In the new fridge. 00:25:53.190 --> 00:25:55.570 In the new fridge. In the garage. 00:25:55.970 --> 00:26:00.850 So what did you bring up, Greg? Because I got a few things, too. 00:26:01.130 --> 00:26:08.130 Well, I did want to mention that, yeah, we don't. The post-show from last episode hasn't been posted. 00:26:08.390 --> 00:26:13.970 I see that. It didn't get sent from a phonic up to the site. 00:26:14.610 --> 00:26:17.130 By the time I went to look at it, it wasn't in a phonic anymore. 00:26:17.430 --> 00:26:20.350 So now it's like I got to pull it off this card and do the whole thing again. 00:26:20.590 --> 00:26:26.350 I can do that when I do this show. So you'll get a special double post show posted. 00:26:27.390 --> 00:26:31.490 But I'm like, we're going to be recording here in a couple of days. I'll just do that. 00:26:31.950 --> 00:26:35.590 I'll just do the easy thing. But I still have it on this memory card. 00:26:35.590 --> 00:26:41.170 So what is what are the best time travel movies. 00:26:42.050 --> 00:26:45.070 Time travel time travel I'm not sure I can name too. 00:26:45.070 --> 00:26:45.730 Many of them. 00:26:45.730 --> 00:26:47.750 Back to the future I mean. 00:26:47.750 --> 00:26:49.690 It's a pretty good good. 00:26:49.690 --> 00:26:51.710 Movie yeah I think back to the future up there. 00:26:51.710 --> 00:26:52.650 But I don't think it's my I. 00:26:52.650 --> 00:26:58.530 Don't think it's the best time travel no is it a time travel movie it's I'm 00:26:58.530 --> 00:27:03.650 trying to think of the name of it but the where he's like stuck in the dimension, 00:27:04.970 --> 00:27:14.710 Stuck in a dimension In between dimensions Buckaroo Banzai across the 8th dimension Cube No Stuck. 00:27:14.710 --> 00:27:15.970 In between dimensions. 00:27:15.970 --> 00:27:16.630 Yes. 00:27:18.180 --> 00:27:19.560 Okay, keep going. Keep describing. 00:27:19.840 --> 00:27:23.740 I'm trying to think of who it is that's in the movie. 00:27:24.100 --> 00:27:25.160 Oh, Jurassic Park. 00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:25.740 No. 00:27:28.860 --> 00:27:31.400 There's that time travel. I can't think of it right now. 00:27:31.600 --> 00:27:32.700 It's not the Matrix, is it? 00:27:32.780 --> 00:27:33.560 No, no. 00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:38.480 I think, I'm wondering if the one I'm trying to remember is the one you're going to mention. 00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:44.400 If I can. It's kind of one that repeats over, like the sequence repeats over and over again. 00:27:44.600 --> 00:27:50.860 That's not Groundhog Day. That is, what is that? uh the day after no no wasn't bruce. 00:27:50.860 --> 00:27:51.980 Willis in it or something. 00:27:51.980 --> 00:27:56.960 Oh that you're the bruce willis that's a good pull because that is the movie i'm thinking of. 00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:58.060 Which one is that. 00:27:58.060 --> 00:28:00.780 But are you thinking of the tom cruise one no. 00:28:00.780 --> 00:28:02.360 I'm thinking of the bruce willis one i thought. 00:28:02.360 --> 00:28:04.220 12 monkeys oh. 00:28:04.220 --> 00:28:05.780 No no i'm thinking of 12 monkeys i. 00:28:05.780 --> 00:28:08.960 Forgot that is to me my favorite time travel i think 00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.620 it's also the one that may that is it's the best i think 00:28:11.620 --> 00:28:15.540